Rugby TTL - Series 2 - Episode 20 - From Wales' Challenges to Australia's Struggles: Rugby's Global Game

Autumn Internationals Part 2: Autumn Recap and Analysis

In this episode of the Rugby TTL Podcast, join Polly, Keith, and Adam as they continue their deep dive into the autumn international rugby season. They cover a range of teams including Wales, South Africa, New Zealand, England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Italy, and Argentina. From Wales' unexpected results to the All Blacks' struggles, and Argentina's potential as a World Cup dark horse, the discussion is wide-ranging and filled with detailed analysis. They also touch upon the impact of TV rights on rugby viewership and what countries like France and Italy need to do to step it up. Packed with insights and frank opinions, this episode is a must-watch for any rugby fan looking to get a comprehensive recap of the Autumn Internationals.

00:00 Introduction and Recap of Part One
00:21 Wales' Performance in the Autumn Internationals
02:50 Challenges Facing Welsh Rugby
06:38 Controversial Incident and Its Aftermath
17:50 New Zealand's Struggles and Future Prospects
30:46 Australia's Disappointing Autumn Internationals
32:20 Post-England Game Analysis
32:44 Australia's Defensive Strengths
33:26 Australia's World Cup Prospects
34:43 NRL Players and Team Changes
35:01 James O'Connor's Role
35:58 Joe Schmidt's Tenure
36:32 Australian Rugby's Discipline Issues
40:40 Italy's Autumn Internationals Performance
47:44 Argentina's Rugby Resurgence
54:34 France's Mixed Results
01:01:44 International Players in National Teams
01:03:21 Autumn Internationals Recap
01:05:15 Broadcasting and Rugby's Popularity
01:07:09 Closing Remarks and Future Plans

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Recap of Part One
• 0:21 Wales' Performance in the Autumn Internationals
• 2:50 Challenges Facing Welsh Rugby
• 6:38 Controversial Incident and Its Aftermath
• 17:50 New Zealand's Struggles and Future Prospects
• 30:46 Australia's Disappointing Autumn Internationals
• 32:20 Post-England Game Analysis
• 33:26 Australia's Defensive Strengths
• 34:43 NRL Players and Team Changes
• 35:01 James O'Connor's Role
• 35:58 Joe Schmidt's Tenure
• 36:32 Australian Rugby's Discipline Issues
• 40:40 Italy's Autumn Internationals Performance
• 47:44 Argentina's Rugby Resurgence
• 54:34 France's Mixed Results
• 1:01:44 International Players in National Teams
• 1:03:21 Autumn Internationals Recap
• 1:05:15 Broadcasting and Rugby's Popularity
• 1:07:09 Closing Remarks and Future Plans

Transcript

Ep 20_Video

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of a rugby TTL podcast. This is part two of the Ultimate Internationals discussion that we started managed to cover the Spring Box England, Scotland, and Ireland. Polly. Keith. Adam, always a pleasure to have you on, gents. Um, it's gonna be here. I, I think it, there's no point of pissing about, we may as well just start talking about how Whales did, shouldn't we really?

We took, we finished the crescendo at the end of it and led onto it. Let's. Let's start with the elephant in the room, shall we? Well, I think we all discussed, didn't we? We all said, you know, how many points is it gonna be? And we all said somewhere around the 50 point mark, and laughing and jokingly in the, uh, in the text messages, that last game, it was like, well, at half time.

And, um, we weren't far off to be fair, were we with, with a scoreline prediction. But, you know, uh, I you can finish that, but, but [00:01:00] where wa where do Wales feel that the Autumn Internationals has actually left them, uh, in terms of, uh, world rankings, in terms of what they've achieved? You know, they, they finally managed to get a couple of wins under the belt.

They beat Japan. Um, you know, and that was a big game as well. They needed to beat Japan. I always, there would've been, um, pushed down the rankings and the seedings for the World Cup draw and, uh, and everything else like that. So, and, and it's pretty close. They would've fallen nearly into, um, position 13 for rank 13 in the world.

So. In terms of Wales, you could call it actually a good Autum International, to be fair. So the, the score lines they got, so they got 28 52 defeat to Argentina. They won 24, 23 in the last second against Japan. They then lost 52, 26 to New Zealands. They then obviously got 73 kneeled by [00:02:00] white, uh, by, uh, the spring box.

However, as you said, but I don't think against, well against the teams they played, I don't think that is as bad as it could have been. If they'd lost to Japan, it would've been a further shit show than it needed to be. But they got that one done in a team in a similar sort of realm as them really, and obviously Japan went and then beat Georgia.

So we know that roughly. 11, the 12, 13, 14 are pretty much where they should be really in world rankings. I think they blooded a lot of players in, to be fair, I I, I actually think there's a lot of negatives to take away from Wales just 'cause it's Wales to start with. But, um, I honestly think that they're actually getting players coming through.

They've got a big, they've got a bigger issue coming up soon enough with it being reduced down to two regions, however, that's gonna look. Apparently Jack Morgan's [00:03:00] now off Dewey Lakes off, they're off to Gloucester. There's a mass exodus going, we're here, there we're everywhere. There's bigger issues in Wales than what that probably that November international series was.

Well, they're they're symptomatic of it, aren't they? Um, it's been a long time coming and, but you say, if you frame it in the context of Yeah. Wales is. They're very much playing at the level like you said, but it's very difficult to talk about and without taking the histor historical context of what they were, look at the grandstands grand slams they've had, the, the great players they've had over the years.

That's why we're talking about it. You know, if this was like another nation ranked around where they are, probably wouldn't get much airtime would it? I do find that last fixture bizarre though, especially considering it was alright, you've blooded in players, but I mean that's demoralizing and it's a bit embarrass for the w It was about money though, but yeah.

Yeah, it was purely about money. The wel shall refuse are bleeding money and you know, they've got one of the best stadiums in the [00:04:00] world, you know, you know, I think arguably nobody can, uh, uh, can contemplate that there's 80,000 people that turn up to Cardiff on a Saturday. Uh, they love going to the bar, to the Millennium Stadium.

The atmosphere in there is absolutely rocking. Um, so the opportunity arose for, to sell out. Sell the stadium. They didn't sell it out. They didn't sell out. They did not sell out. They didn't sell the All Blacks out either. That's the issue. That's incredible. They did. And that, and a lot of people said that's the systematic, the systematic problem with Welsh rugby.

This, these were planned when Wales were competitive. These fixtures haven't just pulled outta nowhere. The, these were planned two, three years ago before the shit show started. However, Welsh fans have given up to a certain extent and not even sold out, going to be able to watch the All Blacks gonna be able to go watch the current spring box at, in their own backyard.

It's, there is something seriously wrong within Welsh rugby from top to bottom. [00:05:00] And we discussed it numerous times. To try and keep this as brief as possible. That, that it's not been a terrible min nationals. I, I don't think. No, I, I, I agree and I think, I think that they've highlighted a few players that have got potential to move forward.

Yeah. You know, whales are in a position where they're gonna have to start relaxing the way they do their caps and the way that they can play, play, uh, for the, for the country. If you've only got two teams, you've, uh, effectively you're only picking from, you know, what, two squads of 30. So, you know, you have to be able to be able to, uh, reach outside and reduce that cap limit.

You know, Lewis re coming back was a big bonus and, you know, he, he definitely showed that he's got some class in and amongst those Welsh players. And I think if you can get a couple of other players ticking alongside that, you know, you've got the core of a, a really good team, because we know Jack Morgan's one of the, you know.

Arguably one of the best sevens currently out there. You know, especially in the Six Nations. You know, you look at the [00:06:00] Lions tour and you know, I, you know, I probably would've started him because he's the kind of seven that I like, or you know, definitely coming off the bench. Who's there nine as well? The one that got injured?

Oh, to Mark Williams. And he would've started, I think he was, he was in better form than Gibson Park on the in and definitely better form than Alex Mitchell. He was what? He was Premiership Player of the year last year. One of the best players in the premiership at nine for Gloucester. He's absolutely superb.

So, you know, they've got some great players. It's just trying to get everything, uh, you know, singing and dancing to make sure that they can get people in. Completely agree. And then there was the incident. What incident? How profile, I don't hear anything about this. Me. Wow. I think what happened is, um, someone, someone said something naughty about someone else.

Uh, one person didn't like the fact that they were losing 73. Neil [00:07:00] may have shot a glance or, or thrown some comments in regards to a big second row. The big second row grabbed his shirt. Uh, in that same process, his hand accidentally slipped up and got in his face. That's, that's how I see it. I, I, I, I, I saw, I saw it as his, his, I saw it as his thumb went onto the lads fucking spinal cord.

But that's, uh, ear, ear by there. But I, I, we, we, we've obviously discussed this in the group chat as well, and like the ban and all these other bits, and then I saw his response on socials this week, which I think made it. Even worse. Worse. Um, he's not come out looking any better. Um, like how old was the lad that he sort of finger blasted to the fucking spinal cord as well?

Like, come on. Like Yeah, but he's an [00:08:00] international rugby player, so age ages irrelevant, right? No, no. But come on, like you got a behemoth of what? 84 foot tall man, like the BFG trying to finger blast a fucking fairy, like, what's going on? Like, let's, let's put it into context. The only reason he didn't get more than a 12 week ban is because of his pretend bullshit fucking appeal that I've, yeah, I've done it.

It was fucking obvious. It's on video. And also because well, rugby fucked up and didn't have anything from 18 weeks to 200 fucking eight weeks. That's the only reason he didn't get more of a band. Um, it was, it was an 18 week ban minimum every day of the week. Like whether you appealed and like as we, uh, it got broken down, good behavior and all that bullshit.

Hold on. Does that good behavior get taken into a red card on the pitch? Why does it get taken into account afterwards? Bollocks, absolute bollocks. That's what it is. Unfortunately, that's the, that's, that's the standard rules. If you looked at grassroots rugby now, and, you know, I, [00:09:00] I, I've had to go through it in the last few years in terms of a player getting red carded.

You know, if a player gets recorded, the first thing you have to get 'em to do is apologize to the referee. No. You know, you have to show remorse for whatever reason. Whether you think you were right, whether you were wrong, whatever it is, is the first thing you need to do is you need to show remorse to the referee.

No, uh, gives you an opportunity to, at, at least go for when the club decides to give you aban and, uh, you know, and what they proposed to the r. It puts it in good stead. It says you were one. Not only did you apologize to the other player, you were apologetic to the referee. You understood what you did wasn't necessarily the right thing happened.

Whether you found yourself guilty or not, it made no odds. You just make that apology regardless, because guess what? It can reduce your ban and other thing to reduce your ban, to get you back on the pitch is the key thing. And you know, um, whether you think he, he actually meant his, our heartfelt apology or his words or whatever way is everything he's done is because guess what?

He wants to be playing rugby come the summer next year, [00:10:00] um, ready for for the World Cup the following season, the following year. You know, so, but not, he's got none of the games. He's actually banned for a Springbox game. It's only for the sharks. There's no issues there. There's no concern there. 'cause they, they are what they are.

So there's no spring games missed. And then to. Allow a mitigation for a heartfelt apology and then come out with a social media post like that. Surely you should be dragged back in and say, well, hold on. You bullshitted this, this is, this is what you actually felt. We are actually gonna put it back up to 18 weeks.

Yeah. How would you feel if you just got banned for springbox for 12 games and, uh, but could play domestic rugby? I agree. Like that. It, it happened on the national stage. Yeah. It didn't happen on the club stage. This is where like rugby's banning stuff is really, really backward thinking at times. It's, it's ideal in or around an international period, but if it's an international [00:11:00] period, it should start either just before, so say he's got a 12 week ban that will start just before the next cycle of spring, got box games.

So he misses maybe his first or second last, uh, the one or two games before round for his club that he'd, he'd technically be away on camp. And then it, it would be banned for the, the period during, in the spring box. I don't think it needs to be banned for 12 weeks afterwards, including your club. 'cause then like he's done that perfect.

He's done that. Perfectly timed, didn't he? Yeah. I mean the, the, the concept at um, you know, so we at grassroots level dunno about in Ireland, Keith, but a grassroots level is you or your four week ban starts from the, the first game. But it starts from the day after the red card if you so wish a Michigan repeal, um, and the week span are actually a associated to games.

But they're not, they're not international games. That's the, that's the [00:12:00] thing. No, I know that. Yeah. I just, it happens. Are we harsh? Because we, we basically wanna dent the way the spring box can attack everything. So I, I don't, I don't, I don't think losing him would dent it. That's the difference. I don't, it's not that I, I just, I, I think it's completely unjust in how it has been dealt with because world rugby have also highlighted that there's significant flaws in their own banning system because they don't know what the level of severity is.

And. Has loopholes been put in again? Yeah. Well, I, I'd just like to come in for a second here and just say like, I, I made my feelings known into group chat with regards this, uh, and a, a lot of the, uh, voicing of opinions around it was that, well, that's him going to be done now because it was so, it was so grotesque for the moment, so unnecessary.

We don't want to be seeing it. We don't want to be promoting it to the, the next generation to just be like, right, okay, well, do you know what? You can do it at the highest level and you're only going against the. [00:13:00] Bare minimum and re regards like, uh, you know, prior, uh, discipline being okay. Well, like at, he has been red carded before at club level.

So like where, where do you start drawing the lines? And I said in group chat saying like, well, world rugby be shit the bed. Because as you said, Carl, they don't have the in-between of the, the bands. It goes between that like 18 week to the 200 week to like, uh, the, the, the maximum length. Like the fact that it, they're, it such a huge jump from the smallest.

Mitigation to the largest, they tied their hands because they knew that if they went over that minimum amount, he was gonna miss the World Cup. And they just didn't want to do that. And take away from the spectacle of the World Cup and this South African team and the, the team that has lost most from this incident in a [00:14:00] nothing match at the end of the All of Internationals is the Sharks.

Hmm. Agreed. Yeah, because he's out for the rest of the season for a 73 Neil Victory over Wales. Like it was a nothing game to start with and like, it's just, yeah, it's mental, isn't it? Uh, uh, from a game that, which we all discussed about, is there any need to play it? Uh, you know, uh, and we go from there, but I, I do think it's a great talking point now.

You know, this is one of those things that if we don't start talking about it on this sort of platform and, you know, and have those discussions, there's nothing's gonna change at, at world level rugby, you know, international level rugby, you know, we want to go to a grassroots game and, and we, that's the sort of stuff that someone puts a finger in an eye, I dunno about you, Keith, and or, or you Carl.

But I'm pretty confident. It definitely gets to everyone's backs up and you know, he won't have a finger left. Oh yeah. He wouldn't have a finger left, that's for sure. You, you talking about, you know, the, uh, talking about it, do you think it will elicit any [00:15:00] change with them though? How, how often are they criticized and how often do we see, see things actually change for the better when it comes to world rugby?

There's changes, but they, they seldom result in anything good. I don't think anything will come of it. It won't come of it. It was like, it 'cause it until it happens again and it affects another couple of teams and becomes more of an issue that they've actually gotta look at. Rebounding it. That's the only way anything gets changed.

And that's no different in normal life. Is it? Like if you've got, if a car goes down a pothole 20 times, the, they might fill the pothole in, but if it's only one, it's, it's not as much of a, as a concern. The, the only way something with regards this type of incident would change is if a similar incident happened.

Very closely after this, uh, ban going out, and then for it to possibly get the 200 week and then for people to strike up and going, well, hold on a second here. Why? What is, we know your scorecard [00:16:00] when it comes to marking it down and going from one to the other and being apologetic and all that bullshit.

But like, unless something happens at a very similar, uh, timeframe to cause an uproar from a fan base that has a good following behind it, then they're just going to continue with the way that they've set the laws. Even that will, someone gets blinded. I mean, let's, let's say for one moment that the lads whose eye got poked, he, you know, it's extreme.

Let's say blinded him permanent. Well, you the top Tom, Tom Aspen. Yeah. Yeah. He's going through it in a, I just gonna say it that. Yeah. Does that impact the result because based upon their criteria, no, it doesn't. 'cause he was shown to be apologetic. Well then it's still a 12 week ban. But it's funny though, because we talk about that hot, you know, the tackle, uh, if you take someone across the horizontal or if you take someone in the air, the severity of the action that occurs to the person that then when they hit the ground is taken into effect, whether it's a red card or not, you know, so you can't say, well [00:17:00] actually the severity of the incident on the pitch, uh, we can take that into account to increase it up to a red card.

Then surely the severity of the actions of the, of the individuals should be then taken into account to, to, to the ban. And um, and maybe that's what they've done. Maybe they've seen it as a little bit of a, you know, he was just trying to catch some mascara out the bottom of his eye, you know, and, and that's what they've looked and go, oh, accidentally you've caught his eye.

Uh, sorry, there's your 12 week ban. Whereas, like you said, Carl, he, he's literally tried to do the old scorpion finishing move, trying to pull his spine outta it from, from the back of his head and gone finish him. May, may, may, maybe we need to see Ebe do it to like Bill Beaumont or something to see change that that might, uh, that might make a fucking change.

But right before we go, rambling on into terrible worlds. Um, another team that Wales obviously got beaten by was the All Blacks, however, I think they had a pretty [00:18:00] terrible November internationals. Um, fictionist was obviously a 26, 13 victory over Ireland, a 25 17 victory over Scotland. That could have easily gone the opposite way.

England obviously done the number on M 33 19 and then they obviously beat. At the end, I don't think they looked impressive in any of those. Yeah, no, I a hundred percent agree. And, uh, what I've been told from the people down under is that, um, they were fully expecting to win every single one or matches, and the pressure was already on.

Um. The manager Rise going in Yeah. Going into the series and, um, they came out not looking, uh, very good, particularly in that Wales game. It Wales pinpointed, and I know it's transitioned from, we were just talking about what, where Wales could, you know, potentially, [00:19:00] uh, move forward tactically against New Zealand.

They pinpointed that New Zealand have been notoriously poor under the high ball all series, so they just kept going forward and New Zealand keeps selecting players that are not good when they are pressured under the high ball. And New Zealand rugby at current standing is just nowhere near what we've seen over the last couple of decades.

Is it, is it because of our, our expectations are just so immense for the All Blacks. Maybe it's, is it, is it one of those factors that they've either been the best team, the second best team in the world for so long that, um, you know, when they put in a subpar performance, which, you know, results, don't, you know that that game against England, you know, we can look at that.

And we talked about how good England were, rather than talking that New Zealand were poor. But yeah, I, I watched a load of the, the commentary and some of the podcasts down there and they were [00:20:00] saying it was one of the poorest New Zealand touring sites that they've sent up, you know, uh, for a long time.

And, um, thing, thing is though, I think there's such a depth of availability for the All Blacks as well. It's not just the, the squad they sent up. I think there's a lot, a lot of players that, that are available that could be available, that could make them better. I, I think there's players that have not been utilized.

There's players injured. I don't, I don't, I don't think they've, they've worked under razor either. There's quite a few people that have done few bits. Uh, one of the lads we've had on previously, Hugh Griffin, EE, he went into it in detail and they just don't seem to fit the Razor way of rugby. There's a way that New Zealand play and the All Blacks play, and then there's a way that Razor plays and the two doesn't seem to want to match.

Uh, and do you think, I think they had the similar issue when obviously, oh, there was that time obviously after John Aluma [00:21:00] and all of those players. There was a big lull in New Zealand rugby weren't there? There was a lull period where everyone could beat them. Nobody was worried about 'em. And I think we're going back into that lull where nobody's actually scared of playing the All Blacks.

Now, when did they lose the air of invincibility? I was trying to think about it off the back of this conversation. Mid, mid, mid to late. Two thousands, wasn't it? Was it sort of af there was that there was a, there was a lull weren't there? Where they just on volume. I mean, this time around though, because obviously I would say, I would say after the, the, after they, the third World Cup, so when they were going for their third world Cup in a row, that was when they, they they were, they looked a, a, a lesser team.

But, you know, we, we keep talking about it and, and it's still, there's a, you know, if you, when was the last time England beat New England and England? And it's 13 years ago. Yeah. [00:22:00] 2012, you know? Yeah. When was the last, when was the last time Ireland beat New Zealand In Chicago? Wasn't it? Was it Chicago? Two years, two years ago.

Yeah. First one was 2018, wasn't it? And then they did it to, to be fair, that might have been the turning point. That might have been the invincibility point, because Ireland did make 'em look bang average, but then. That was the best team in the world though. It was a hell of an IRS team, wasn't it? Correct.

It was the best, arguably the best team in the world at that current time being. Yeah. Someone else alongside, then you got the spring box and then like you've got, where did the New Zealand fit into that? Are they the, were they third best side? Were they fourth best side at the time? Has that invisibility cloak sort of slipped?

Is there other, other nations that can actually realize there is weaknesses as, as Keith was saying, under the high ball, was a big weakness. Like Will Jordan is phenomenal, but.[00:23:00] 

But he will run past a hundred players and fucking blitz you all. If you put 'em in his hand and he's off, like it's, he just find space in a phone box with Gemma Collins, that bloke, but it's just, I thought you said Jerry Collins said, I realize you read Gemma. Oh no. That man was, that man was a one out of a rugby player, by the way.

He was. Yeah. They've got, they've got a lot to do to get ready for the World Cup. Do you think they're actually gonna be, they, well, obviously the opening games against the Aussies who will Oh, well, yeah, because Father Cracker, imagine what a game that is to, I forgot we've, we've actually had that since the last pod as well, haven't we?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've had the old crew. Oh yeah. It's the, the thing with New Zealand when it comes to like. World Cups. Like even in the last World Cup, everyone was like, this is the, you know, worst team that we've [00:24:00] seen for a while. And they, they just show up when it comes to the World Cup. Like we, we were like, right, we're finally gonna break our quarter final course.

They, they're not playing well and then they just come out and absolutely do us. So like when it comes to New Zealand and World Cup, like Anton's on the table, let's be honest. Agree, agree. They were, they were probably one red card away from winning. It weren't they? Look how close the score line was in the final.

They are, they are tournament monsters 'cause they've done it for so long, same as Spring books have got himself into a similar format. Um, and that's probably the difference between them actually executing World Cups than the likes of France that everyone puts the title on every time. Yeah. They're gonna do it same as Ireland is gonna win it.

It's like Scotland and the Six Nations. Yeah. Great, great Scotland. Yeah, we've obviously Scotland to Scotland, but it's a, it's a crazy bubble out there at the minute. And New Zealand have got probably really come away thinking we've got some graft to [00:25:00] do to get ready, um, for that. But especially that opening game, imagine having to go and play the Wallabies on the opening day of the World Cup and not getting up, just get upset there because the rest of the group's not great.

I think they got, they got, and if you lose and Hong Kong, China and they, so they're, they should be fine. But I remember if, if whoever loses that matches probably got England in the second round. Or is it the court finals? That's where they hit the England team. Oh, of course. They're talking about the, the bottom half of the draw, you know, is Yeah.

Favored the Northern Hemisphere teams again, you know, because, um. Uh, I thought, I don't get me, don't get me onto the, you know, the World Cup predictions because when a TR said we were going out against Argentina and taking away the possibility of talking about an England Ireland semifinal, I was like, what?

What are you even doing sitting.

Oh, Shani, absolutely [00:26:00] having a shocker there. He's um, he's obviously done that for a bit of a click bite, I reckon. Oh, for sure. He definitely got a couple of people and a couple of the replies I were getting were, uh, that Eng England where the team closest to South Africa currently, and I was just like, bro, okay, I'm God, leave that be genuinely, genuinely, I, I'm, I'm shocked that people are say, you know, do I think that they're the, the, the second best, do you think England, that England team, the second best team in the world?

I said, I dunno, it's always, it's always interesting, you know, you dunno what South Africa are gonna bring week in, week out. You know, you watch that scrum dominance and he's literally gone and put two a hundred and forty five stone bloke, 145 kilo blokes in the scrum and gone. Yeah, you can't run, you can't catch, but God, you can scrummage and it's like, yeah.

Okay. Uh, well how do you combat that then? And then you just make everyone, you, you know, the opposition teams have gotta turn around and go. He, he's, it's like, um, he's like, he's got [00:27:00] all of the chips on a poker table. He's just, he's just trying to bully everyone into doing, you know, he's just turned around and says, you have to play, you have to find something to beat me.

Whatever it is that you have to find to beat me, then I, I'll just keep experimenting with different things and, you know, um, the scrum was destroyed and obviously they're looking at the law change and stuff like that and, you know, is the scrum actually competitive in any way, shape or form? When the scrum half actually puts it at the second race feet, you know, when it's still supposed to beru the border is still supposed to be unfortunately poll.

What, what, what you just said there. When you've got front rowers that are 140 kg, there's so much pressure in that front row that you can't hook anymore because as soon as you lift your foot, you're, you're dead. Yeah. Like you're just being absolutely killed with the pressure coming the other way. So how are you going to combat like the, the physical aspect of the.

Scrum has become so elevated that the hooking [00:28:00] has to be obsolete for, to stay up. I think we should go back to a, a, like a charging gauge. If you go back to like the eighties, you know, where it's a, you know, and it's literally they're running at each other and smashing into each other. So a initial engagement that really counts rather than sort of that applied pressure of like, you know, the, have the referees holding the scrum in the right place really played into the team.

That's one that's got the biggest pack. 'cause it's more about the weight rather than the actual technique. It's a case of, you know, you get it, you get set right Crouch, find set speed that up a touch a little bit more to, to remove the opportunity to get the team that's set, the team that gets set earlier and gets sets first wins that race.

Then, you know, is that a solution to be able to sort of create that competition back at the ru because you know, you is a crouch. Bind. Oh, wait a minute. Uh, my binds are not right. My binds right. No, I've told you to bind. So you bind first time as soon as I say it. Soon as you got, [00:29:00] you've got less time.

Right? Engage and, and people will say, well, it's a law. We wanna be rou, we wanna be set because we're about to smash heads into each other and go. But that's, that's part of it. It is part of the technique, isn't it? It's kind of, you know, getting into that point. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm never gonna prop.

Um, uh, I did it once and, uh, never again. Um, so I, I, I don't want be in that position, but, you know, I dunno what the solution is. I don't think that there's a massive issue with what we've got currently, but I think eventually they won't rid of Scrummaging. That's, that's just how it is. That's, that's the eventual, I think that's the eventual goal for world rugby.

Um, with obviously all the other, the bits going on, uh, obviously safety, et cetera, et cetera. I think as, as Keith has said, the size, the push, the pressure, everything like that, it will navigate towards. Scrums becoming extinct in some sort of format. I think we've already got, we've already got rugby league though.

I mean, to me, I think it'd be a sad day. [00:30:00] Yeah. That's the real solution is make propped play for 80 minutes. Get rid of seven players off the bench. Get rid of that. You know that, that I've never seen Carl shake his head so quick in my life. He's like, nah, he's no anymore. I'm just saying that I, I'm trying to get him off the chat.

I, I'm trying to remove, trying to, trying to remove him, you know, make, make a prop play for 80 minutes. And guess what? You can't have a complete gym monkey. You've gotta, you've gotta be able to run around and tackle it. Ah, nah. Get, get this ball outta here. Sh But you've changed pulley, you've changed. Um, so we've gotta bring a different perspective.

That's all. No, no. Fucking bollocks. Absolute bollocks. Um. The, uh, the Wallabies then before Poll gets completely removed, um, lost to in the world. Best team in the world. Lost, lost to England, 25 7, lost to Italy, 26 [00:31:00] 19, lost to Ireland, 46 19, and then lost 48 33 to France. Yeah, it's just a sha shambolic time for Australian rugby at the minute, you know, uh, you thought with the way they were coming back near the end of the Lion Store Yeah.

And the kind of bit of pride that they had that Oh, okay. Well, right. They've finally got a bit of bite boot and bollocks and a bit of pride about themselves. But the, the Autumn Internationals just God, like I actually, for the first time ever play in Australia, I wasn't even worried. I was like, this Australian team is so poor.

You, I just expected to win for the first time ever. And every other time it was a compatible, I've been at the Ireland, Australian matches plenty of times, and every single time it's a great show that the fans, the Australians come out in force. But the, the vibe around Australian rugby at the minute is in the dumps.

Did feel like there was [00:32:00] some embers, as you say though, Keith, wasn't it sort of towards the end of the Lions tour? They absolutely baptized South Africa. In South Africa, didn't they? Um, yeah. You know, in the rugby championship it did feel like sort of some of the embers were starting to, you know, glow again and they were, they were gonna get back.

But like you say, it's just this, this, it was an absolute damp squibb and it was quite disappointing really. I think the first, after the England game, they looked pretty decent as well. I thought there was a chance that they could. Do some, they, they, if they, obviously they managed to peg it close enough in the first half, second half.

Obviously England managed to go through the gears, get the job done. But like they were, they were under they, who's that winger? They've got, is it JSON Jerson or whatever? Yeah, json Yeah. Yeah. S good. Don't forget though, don't forget that the, the Australian defense, England should have scored three more tries in the first 10 minutes.

Agreed. But we didn't. Uh, I, I know. So you've got to give the Australians a little bit of credit in that point. Exactly. And defensively, they made some good decisions. In fact. Agreed. In fact, [00:33:00] it, uh, the tackle that held, um, Ben er up, which is one of the best tackles I've seen, it was absolutely brilliant.

Unreal. And I was just like, you know, you can go back and show that and go, well, how do you stop someone from scoring a try? That's got all of the momentum and all the way. You need to agreed roll 'em onto their back so they can't, well, it's not as easy as that. Well, you've gotta find, somehow manage to manipulate the body to prevent the ball from being, you know, from, from getting the ball down.

So, I dunno, I just think, you know, they, the Australians have got, what, two years to build to their home World Cup, you know, and they, we've, we've already said, haven't we? That opening game of the World Cup should be Australia and New Zealand. There's discussions about whether they make that the, the opening game of the World Cup, because I think, you know, if you were an Australian, do you wanna, do you wanna play that game first or do you wanna, do you wanna have a couple of warmup games before you go into that?

You know, playing Chi, playing Chile and playing the Hong Kong, China is not a warmup game against, to play against the All black. Get it [00:34:00] done, just get it out the way, and then you know whether you've got it done or not. Because worst case, if they fuck up, they can still get the best, best finished third. So like if they know how the results are going to just get the All Blacks outta the way, what a way to, if wel rugby want to sell the game that we all love, put the biggest fucking game available on the first game of the World Cup in Australia.

Yeah. Putting Australia All Blacks first game blockbuster, the rest of it will create itself, especially if that goes and becomes an absolute ding-dong of a game that it will potentially will be, the atmosphere will grow, the buzz will grow. Everyone will start buying into it more. Australia will bring players in.

There's plenty of players from the NRL that are also sort of looking over the fence, making themselves potentially available for that season to play union and stuff like that. The Australian side that's there now would be completely different to what. We see it the [00:35:00] first game of the World Cup. Well, the first thing that they should do is decide, is James O'Connor in, or is he out?

Because there's far too much rumbling every single time that the round of games come about. Is he gonna be included, is he not? Like, uh, start with that, take that emphasis away from the team and focus on the, the group moving forward. Because there's some really good individuals from that Australian team.

Some recently retired and uh, you know, they've got a really good coach there. And Joe Smith. Uh, we've had fabulous years under him over the last decade. So while I say that currently there is like a, an error demise after the inter this Autumn Internationals for Australian rugby, there are pillars and as you say, they can dabble because they have such a big.

Country and big love for sport over in Australia. Uh, like they can pick a couple of players out that will perform come to your son. I, I don't, I think Joe Schmitt's [00:36:00] gotta go, Joe. Like they can't, they can't stand him. I think he's already on his way out, correct? I think he is already. Yeah. I, I think he is, but I, I thought, I thought he was off after the Autumn Internationals anyway, wouldn't he?

I don't think it's the Autumn Internationals. I don't, I think he might be staying a bit longer, but he's departing. But that I, I speak to a couple of Wallabies fans and they can't stand him for what he, what he's done. To them. I know they're prob, they're already going through a significant lull after Pie Jones, like when he was our, when he was our manager.

And the one thing that I really do wish that he embedded in that time that we currently have gone away from, and you highlighted during the last podcast when it comes to our discipline under Joe Smit, he had a very strict rule of do not give more than like three or four penalties away. He was so focused on discipline.

And I just think that that, uh, ki kind [00:37:00] of structure isn't what Australian rugby wants and can abide to, and that's where the conflict of a style of play comes into it. Agreed. Uh, they, they love to play on the edge and he's not that sort of manager and yeah. Um, I don't think they've got the players that can work to that sort of structure like Christ.

Um, Michael Hooper for, for how many years? How many times was he on running on the edge? But look, when he was allowed to do what he did, he'd done it fucking exceptionally well. Cock as well, those similar sort of players. They, they've bred those sort of players that will run the risk around the breakdown and add, physically try and dominate around it.

And I think there's, they've got that, they've got a similar sort of players at the minute, obviously that Harry Potter was the lad on the Wing who, who'd done the number on. Um, he's a wizard. He is a wizard. Harry, you're a wizard Harry. Um, but he actually, he [00:38:00] was the one that done bennel. He flipped him, got the, got the try, got all like they've got.

Some pivotal bits. They've obviously lost Nick White at, at nine, but that the, the other lad that plays nine look pretty decent. The one that come off the, off the bench in the lion on the couple of the Lion Games I saw he, he looked pretty decent. I think he got cropped though in the Lions tour. So whether they got players out, I, I think it's just a ed, is it EDM me?

He's the 10 they got, they got another, they got Thomas, something like that. They had that lad didn't they? Who, who looked electric in the, in the Lion Core and then got a crocked. Um, so I think they got some players to come in. It was, it was an abysmal or nationals is is probably the ver I think, I think right in Australia, off in Australia, two years before the, the before A ball's been kicked is, is, you're a brave man.

You know, I mean, you can. Write 'em off now you could write 'em off in their current format. Yeah. [00:39:00] But I think to say in two years time, where will they be for, you know, building And, you know, don't forget that everyone's budgets all of a sudden start to go up when there's a, a world Cup coming up. And you know, the problem is, is that there's, there's a South African team that are, are trying to go for that third world cup, um, you know, and uh, uh, and a third on the bounce.

And Razzy gets that he's cemented himself into, he's already cemented himself into, uh, rugby greatness. But, um, you know, he's now, he's staying oh, 2031 now and he's just signed his contract as well, Razzy. So yeah, for the next World Cup, post-it. So, yeah, I dunno, I think, I think it's interesting. Look at two years ahead.

And you think that far ahead and you're like, how come we we're still, you know, why are we talking about the World Cup cycle so much when naturally, realistically we should be talking about Six Nations. We should be talking about the opening game of that Six Nations next year. [00:40:00] Uh, yeah, I think, I think there's another episode for that, Paul.

I think we can get around to that. That's gonna, that's gonna be a banger alongside our fantasy league set up. Again, I think we're gonna have an absolute blinder with that one this time round. Ira Robb, my hands in white. Um, yeah, and I, I think we need to probably look at doing a World Cup draw response as well from left to right.

I think that'd be good for us to sit down. We've got three, three nations left though, Paul, three late nation nations left. I'm sorry. I'll shut up then. So we've got three left to get outta the way. We've got France, we've got Argentina, and then we've got Italy. Which do we go, where do we go? I think we jumped to Italy quickly first.

That will probably be the, the quickest one to con converse around. Um, so Italy, we had the victory over Australia 26 19. We then had a 32 14 defeat to [00:41:00] South Africa in Italy. And then we had a 34 19 victory over a chili team that only traveled for one game, which they took off Samoa because Samoa obviously had to go to the World Cup.

Qualifiers the chili, put the rounds up, took that one similar as Tonga. Just fun facts here. Tonga only had one, uh, AUT International because they canceled the others 'cause they couldn't financially do it. But it was lucrative enough for 'em to go to, uh, Murrayfield, to play Scotland, Italy, with. Two victories and a defeat to South Africa, which was only 1432.

I think that was it. I I, I think the Italian team have got a lot better though, haven't they? You know, I, I think we, we constantly write 'em off in the Six Nations, and then I, I don't, we, we talk them up. We talk them up before the Six Nations, and then, then, you know, they, fortunately, I think they're in a position where it, they're not the ones fighting for that [00:42:00] playoff with Georgia, for the, for the, to, you know, into the rugby championship.

Uh, Wales are currently sitting in that sort. So, you know, Italian rugby is moving forward. You know, they, they finally got to, uh. Some, uh, some found some foreign born nationals, uh, and then bring 'em in and get 'em to play. And, you know, if that's what it takes to sort of compete on that world stage, then, you know, fair play.

And if they can afford to do it and they can pay their players and that's absolutely superb. You know, beating Australia at home, absolutely brilliant. Uh, you know, to only lose by eight points to, um, the second best team in the world. That's the South African team with 14 players, remember 8, 8, 18 points?

Was it 18? Was I thought you said 32. No, 14. One four. Oh, okay. Sorry, my boat. Yeah. But even then, you look and remember that South Africa played with 14 men for 70 minutes or whatever it was. Correct. [00:43:00] I, I've always waxed lyrical about Italy for, for a while. I think they've got exceptionally good players.

They're top 14, obviously the. The, obviously the, the, the ones in the URC, the players that are also getting blooded in the prem has been massive. There's a ki there's a massive development model underneath in, um, in Italy. They're under twenties with their, have got development pathways all the way through the, they're under 20 are probably one of the better under 20 teams out there at the minute.

It's just, they always seem to, they seem to do a, France is probably the easiest way that I'll put it. They could win more, but they also shoot himself in their own foot too often. Um, but I, I think on a hold this was a, a positive AUT international. Okay. They probably should have beaten Chile a little bit more convincingly, obviously Chile traveling over for [00:44:00] one game, Italy off the back of two other games.

Keeping South Africa within that and, and doing Australia. I've, I, I, I don't think they could, could be happier though, to be honest. Yeah. I think they, they probably got the results that they were expecting to get and you know, and I think they blooded a lot of players against that chili team as well, didn't they?

They played some, I I don't think it was like a full blown first 15 that, that they put out, so No. You know, those are the perfect opportunities. We talked about that, didn't we? When we talked about Island Day going over to play Spain and, and uh, you know, we have to, teams have to give these top players opportunities to play the top level of rugby and, you know, although Chili where they ranked sort of, what, 20, uh, 16th, 17th in the world, something like that.

Yeah. About 17th, I think now at the minute. Yeah. You know, but we can see that, that that's where the Gulf sort of sits. So, you know, good Six Nation, uh, good Autumn, international Sport. Yeah, I think they're really, they're an [00:45:00] exciting side. Great to go and watch rugby in Rome and Italy. They did one at the, the, um, at, at the alliance in Torin as well, at Hua Stadium.

So it's good for them to be able to get it around Italy. Um, but yeah, I, I love, I love watching rugby in Italy. Yeah. I, I have the same sentiment as well. Like they have some really exciting players with, uh, Monty Ioni and, uh, Simone Ey and, uh, proposal. Yeah. Like they, they've got some really, really like individual player mm-hmm.

When it comes to that back line, um, that when you're watching them, you're like, well, what are they gonna do? You just know they have something in their locker and when it clicks it, it's great to watch. They score from one of the best tries of the, the whole lot on internationals and, um. Look, I, I think it's going back a few years.

The groundwork that Con Oche put in really seems to have, um, [00:46:00] put the foundations there for the current Italian standing, because I remember, I, I loved going to watch Ireland versus Italy just on the basis that, uh, Parise, like there were a one man team for so many years and he was such a phenomenal Ford that you were just like, right, okay.

And he'd score a try and that would be like the whole stadium would applaud him because you're like, right, you're doing the work of 14 other men out here today. So to see the Italians start to create a group that everyone goes from, Brian said the Six Nations, and spoiler alert that years ago, it used to be Right Water, Italy, doing in the Six Nations, like they're finishing bottom every single year.

Duck eggs. To go and Right. Well, they're creeping up the table here. Now, I know that corresponds with other teams not performing, but they are worth their weight when it comes to being in that tournament. Exactly. A hundred percent. I think they've, they've earned their stripes [00:47:00] now and it is now, how do they get to that next level?

Is, is there, is there a way for them to carry on? And the, again, it, it comes back to the conversation of do they need an an Italy a side, but then they're talking about Italy 18 would be look to be joined into the Rugby Europe model so that they could get more game time. That's a whole new conversation on top as well.

Um, yeah, so, uh, Italy good, good automated nationals I think will probably be fair to say. Uh, we've then got France and Argentina, then, um, I think we'll go with. We'll go with Argentina for this one. Now, um, they superb, they beat Wales 28 52. They beat Scotland 24 33 after blip [00:48:00] reversing what, 24? Neil down at half time or whatever it was.

They obviously lost to England 27, 23, but could have easily won that if the game had gone on a couple more seconds. Uh, off the back of what was also a very testing but successful, um, rugby championship. A lot of players have come across from Super Rugby Americas, uh, actually playing within their own divisions, scouted and signed up into the prem or gone to super rugby down in, uh, sort of, uh, down, I think Western Force.

Is that Australia or is that. New Zealand. Where? Australia Western Force. Yeah. So one of the lads that nine that Mon Monya or Montoya, he is gone. He's gone there as well. So I I, I, I think in two years time, we're potentially looking at one of the [00:49:00] dark horses for the World Cup. They've proven that they can beat, you know, pretty much everyone, um, you know, Southern Hemisphere, uh, they could definitely come away and, and play some superb rugby.

Watching them play rugby is like, uh, going back to watching the old All Blacks the way that they want to get the ball around. They want to get it moving and, uh, they keep it alive. It's like, you know, um, they're, they're a threat to everywhere on the park. You know? It's like when I was at that England game and genuinely at one point I was like, oh, the game's done, and next thing you know, Argentina got the ball in their own 22.

I'm like, hang on a minute. How all of a sudden is it now in R 22 and they're about to, you know, and they definitely had the opportunity to win that game. And I think, you know, um, that meet that goes to show that you gotta keep fighting for it. And they proved it the week before when they were, you know, losing at half dollar or losing to Scotland.

And then they come back with one of the, you know, superb performance, seven half performances that you, [00:50:00] you can sort of put on paper. Um, definitely they're, um, you know, that's why they're, they're fifth, they're ranked fifth in the world, you know, they're, they're absolutely brilliant. Uh, and, and hopefully they'll just keep developing, you know, it's taken what.

15, 20 years to, to, for Argentine to really sort of step itself up. But they've been close and close and close. And now I think they're really starting to show their rugby prowess. And, you know, they've got a great league that's going on in their structure in their country. Uh, they've got great support behind them.

They've got international support from, they're allowing their players to go some different places. It's almost like everything that's been put in place over the last 20 years in Argentina has just come into fruition now, uh, which is superb. And I think, you know, the next thing really for us to happen is to see a World Cup in Argentina.

Well, yeah, we had, um, oh, Lucho ads, uh, Aine P show on, uh, the, the episode and yeah, that got discussed. We, we know there's a lot of political [00:51:00] things that are stopping that, but I, I think that is naturally gotta be the next step. Super, super Rugby Americas is probably the perfect blueprint for anyone that wants to grow and consistently grow.

Rugby within nations as well at the minute. Like they've just gone up to the eighth franchise in six seasons and everyone's competitive players are getting scouted, going and playing in bigger leagues pre and there's still a conveyor bait of players coming underneath. And I think to be able to have Stanley careers on the bench and bring him on and do what he does, I, they've just got one hell of a team and they've got some players coming through.

And we even saw the, the Puma 15 where they obviously gotta play Monster and they also played for Bristol Bears and did exceptional things against both of those sides as well. Likem, there were no, were no mugs and obviously Bristol Bears played a younger, a younger [00:52:00] side than planned, but there was still moments of, of brilliance there for, for the future of the Pumas as well.

So I can't wait to see where that comes and. I honestly think they're potentially the dark horses of the World Cup. How that goes? I don't know. I don't think they beat Ireland on the day, but, well, it, well, if it's pa, if it's past the quarter finals, then yeah, they probably will. But it's, um, that's just Ireland being Ireland, but that, that was a strategic call from my side, Carl, she'll say, you know, it's like they, they've got a, you know, we, we've gotta wait and see how everything unfolds.

You know, a lot depends on if we beat Scotland in that group's age, but everything is line up to look like it's going to Ireland versus Argentina once again. Um. And just to like double down on that point. Like we, we didn't even talk like the very first match at the Lions [00:53:00] store. Yeah. They beat the lions.

Yeah. In the Aviva, you know, they put on a show. Yeah. That day They were just phenomenal. Unbelievable. 28, 24 I think was, um, but yeah, OMI is doing a brilliant, uh, job there at the minute and I grew up going to the old Lansdown watching Con Palmy play for Lanster and he was one of my favorite players. And to see the.

Him go from being one of my favorite ply halves to being the coach of such an exciting Argentina team is, uh, phenomenal for all of world rugby because we definitely need that. 'cause just to there, there's very similar, uh, talking points when you, we've just transitioned from talking about how Italy are coming up at the moment to the way that Argentina, over the last number of years when they got put into Detroit nations and they were the, the battering of the, [00:54:00] the nations of those fixtures for many a year to beaten.

The teams being you're Australia, you're New Zealand, South Africa, and being on the brisk of actually like winning the tournament, bringing it down to the last couple of weeks. And it's, I I do agree they would be one of the top teams going into the World Cup, but obviously I, I hope, uh, they not, things don't go out that way.

Sorry, sorry to our South African viewers, but you know, I have to have my green tinted glasses on. Exactly that. Um, that leaves us with France and France are just France, aren't they? So they, they lost 32 17 to the spring box. They, they won 34, 21 to feet against BG and then did a 48 33 against Australia.

Then nothing, nothing stands out blue. That's what I say. [00:55:00] Nothing, nothing jumps out, but nothing like they've done what they needed to do. They obviously lost to South Africa. South Africa were, were they down to 14 men again on that game as well? They got three reds or however I've lost track of, yeah, they, the red in that they're bench, that's their benchmark for the auman nationals, isn't it really?

Yeah. They going on against the springbok, they played every game with 14 men at some point, I think it was. Uh, and then they still won every single one of their games. So they, they managed to look like they kept. Spring box at bay for the first, the first 30 minutes, and then obviously spring box got the red card and decided to put one on them.

So that was probably the closest that South Africa got to a rattle. But France aren't an 80 minute team, in my opinion. They haven't been in a very long time. But, you know, I think we, you know, we've, we've been, you've been watching the comeback of, you know, world Rugby Player of the year [00:56:00] 2025 or 2024, uh, in, in DuPont, and, and he's on his way back and he's, he's getting back to, it's really hard to recover.

And we all said though, that was it lag that played in the Six Nations that finishes off and it was absolutely. He was class and, you know, questionably possibly, um, fitted into that French team a little bit better. But, you know, you lost your leader and you, you tallies manning from that point. And, you know, um, the French rugby are still going to a re you know, we keep talking to a French rugby, they're gonna come good, they're gonna come good.

And eventually they will. And you know, the last World Cup was definitely the best opportunity for them to, to get into it. Um, and then they've had two years where they're kind of sort of, you know, where we're saying, but definitely wouldn't write them off for the, for the six Nations coming up, you know, in February.

And, um, it's hard to gauge when, you know, they, so they, they lose to south, they lose to South Africa just by a smaller margin than everybody else lost to South [00:57:00] Africa. Um, and. Beat Fiji, which is expected. But if you have a look at the Fiji games that Fiji played in internationals, they were pretty good. Um, you know, so yeah, I think the French is slowly, slowly, quietly, moving along nicely, uh, uh, and will be a massive force.

Come to six Nations and, and we'll see that passion, that French passion to come out again, 48, 33 against Australia was a bit too close for comfort though. Like that, that's probably exploited any French priorities. Top, top Ramos, absolute exceptional kicker, but literally just a human turnstile. Fire Escap in the middle of the picture, he lit, literally just turns into a fucking armadillo, rolls up every time a tackle comes near him, but can kick for miles like he, and then you've got a very [00:58:00] aging pack.

They've never, they've never really replaced the front row. They've never really got past Antonio disappearing of the, he come back at the weekend in the top 14 or something like that. So I think he's on his way back, but he's, he must be about 104 now. Like they, I I just young for a prop. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. He's, he's like a baby. But, um, I don't think, I don't think, obviously DuPont is the only bit Miss. I think they've got, they've got potentially two years left of most of this squad. And similar to what potentially of an island model as well. They, they don't. They don't convey a belt enough players through at the right time.

They kind of get stuck in, into bits and like even you've still got Marsh on playing hooker, like how old, how old's Z now? Like okay, he's playing in the top 14. But I, I wouldn't say he's probably the best [00:59:00] hooker around. Like they've got the guests, haven't they? And they've got the, the pathways, you know, if you look at their, their, you know, their youth set how well their under twenties do.

They've got Galtier though. Yeah. Galtier is just a mentalist in Ian. Yeah. Like you, you've also got find players that can play the Galtier way. Yeah. The Pro two league as well. Look, look at the strength of that league. The second division, the strongest second division in the world, isn't it? Domestically.

Yeah, they've definitely got the, you know, I, I think arguably the, the strongest, we call it the strongest league in the, in, in the world. But then you would question, and in that case then that's the reason why they've been so dominant for the, in the European championships for the last few years. And, you know, the, the, the INX Champions Cup, you know, and, and the French teams are just doing superbly in that.

And, you know, um, uh, and even then their league is really competitive, so they're gonna breed some good players and, and they've got a good balance of [01:00:00] basically paying everyone top dollars to come across and play in the country, but yet sort of still be able to promote and build their, their use setups and, and bring those French players through.

So, uh, you know, if only some of the other home nations did the same stuff, then maybe that would be a little bit better. Maybe if we had free to air TV on a Friday and sat Thursday, Friday and Saturday night, uh, where you could actually watch rugby on free to air tv. Uh, we might get a few more people, uh, playing our sport and, and actually sort of supporting rugby and, uh, and, and being more invested.

The problem is, is the fixtures as well though. 'cause like France actually mold the fixtures around their, their, their teams. So the top, the top four, the, the pro they play on a Thursday and Friday night, which is the, the local regional games. They then, on the Saturday daytime, they play their local club and then the pro, the top 14 will play on a Saturday night at eight o'clock.

So everyone will get back from their game and go straight to the top 14, or they'll play on a Sunday. [01:01:00] So they tailor rugby around the rest of the, the actual viewing public. That's, that's the difference. And that's how they've got four top tiers of rugby. Um, however. They might have managed to get a new player just in time for the World Cup, haven't they?

Jack Willis might be actually able to register because of his, uh, 'cause of his time in France. I'm sure I read something the other day that says that it's possibly that someone's managed to poach him back to the uk. Let's hope so. 'cause I don't want him fucking ending up in a, but they, the, the French absolutely love him.

They're all about fucking making him the King of France, like down there. Like, but then, so we don't want that to happen. How do we feel about Van This? No bias, no Bristol bias at all. I don't think he's good enough. It's not that he's, oh man, he's one of the best centers in the prem. Where do you stand on it, Keith, about foreigners playing for your, for your [01:02:00] international team?

Me, I'm all for it. Yeah, we would, I, I think, uh, look here, be stupid for me to say I, and otherwise, like over the last number of years. The best Irish players have been those that have, um, been imported like the, the Van de Flers and the Bundy AKIs. So, look, I'm all for inclusion. Well, I didn't say that just for those reasons.

I, I, I genuinely thought, uh, it was, it, it, I wasn't trying to goji. So I think, you know, we, he was, yeah, no, England had been doing it for years as well. You know, Dylan Hartley was a, was a south, a South African, you know, you go back, Mike Kat, there's a whole load of players. The Scotland's were doing it for years and, you know, everyone's done it for years.

I think a case of, you know, if you think Kat for another country though, I think that maybe that's where we should lie. And you know, I think there are rules that that's how they used to, 'cause we're talking about, that's how they used to do it. Because we're talking about changing now because [01:03:00] that's like the V Yeah.

The VAP brothers are all paying for Tonga in the World Cup. The whole World Cup. Yeah. Yeah, we need, we need a whole World Cup episode. 'cause there's, there's a whole with the drawing to Langi playing for Samoa. There's lots, there's a lots to talk about. And I, I think that will be a great episode to get in at some point very soon.

Uh, all in all, I think England probably had the best Autumn Internationals. Wales didn't, on paper, looked fucking terrible, but actually did. Okay. Scotland probably had the worst, I'd say Argentina looked like they could be a dark horse. Ireland had a positive one until they got found out by the referee.

Uh, that's, that's, that's a one way to put it. Uh, all blacks was pretty dog shit as well. France. [01:04:00] France was France. Uh. Italy, probably really positive as well, I think. All in all. And then South Africa, just constantly, they, to be fair, that's probably the easiest way to put that. I, I, I, I just genuinely think it is a really good Autum internationals that you, you know, uh, and I know it's, I know we're on the podcast, you know, a few weeks after it's happened, but you know, it, they're still talking about it and the buzz is still there and everyone's still, you know, uh, uh, having discussions.

And we're still now already literally gone from, uh, Autumn's, you know, autumn International finish, right? It's four months to work. It's four months to six nations, or three months to six nations. It, you know, uh, in England, players are talking about, oh, who's gonna be ready? Who's gonna be selected? It's George, you know, was George, uh, Ford the best, you know, uh, player for the, in the Autumn Internationals?

And it's, it's great. Uh, and that's the thing you want that to be talked about, and you want people to talk about that international level. You know, we talk about it as well, but. We should also [01:05:00] really start talking about local rugby. Uh, I, when I say, I mean premiership rugby and championship rugby and you know, and bring that sort of stuff in, because that's where we're lacking, aren't we?

International Rugby's massively followed and supported. We need to sort of, you know, get the other stuff going as well. It's, it's been really positive though with ITV managing to get the, the right, the rights as well. So that's gonna be, it's gonna be huge to, to free to air. I think the only downside that I will call out for the, um, for the inter in aut Internationals was, it was on TNT.

Uh, I, I don't, I don't think the coverage was great. I think it was hard for people to see. I thought I rated it when it was on Amazon 'cause it was easy for people to get. Everyone's got a prime account. Their wife's normally, or their misses is spending fuck loads of money that have already got a prime account.

It's easy to watch rugby, chuck it on. Uh, the, the gatekeepers again blocked it to, to the masses, and I [01:06:00] think people missed out on a really great round of international rugby. Yeah, I think, uh, a hundred, a hundred percent with that Carl, and like, that's kind of the consensus over here, not just with regarding TV deals, but definitely what is felt like the, um, rugby as why it's been lacking in its popularity over here is how, uh, it's being gate keeped from the, not just grassroots, but say like the, the less well off the, the ones that can't pay for your private colleges or your massive sky bills.

Um, so to be able to have like your Amazon Prime would definitely be a, a better way of reaching out to get eyes on the products. I, I really hope Netflix. Really take it seriously. They had the opportunity. They, they, they dabbled at the, the six Nations behind the scenes thing. That didn't work out as well as it should have.

But I think, I think there's a chart like everyone's, pretty much everyone's got [01:07:00] Netflix. If there's a way that they can get into it, I think that could really push rugby in another direction as well on that bombshell. As always, it's been an absolute pleasure, gents. We have obviously plotted on for over an hour to get this one through.

Part two is done. We have set AUT Internationals to rights. I think all in all, it was a very good round of rugby for us internationally to be able to watch for those that could watch it. And yeah, we'd then start planning for our World Cup draw. Podcast and we, uh, start lining up for the Six Nations and fantasy fun again.

So for everyone that's joined us, really appreciate your time, especially if you've got all the way through to the end here. Uh, make sure you'd like, follow, subscribe, share it with everyone. If there's any of your favorite points, clip it up. Tell whoever's a wanker. We love to hear anything that you've gotta say about it.

Share your [01:08:00] opinions of it as well. It's, uh, it's always a pleasure for anyone that does actually watch it through. So that's this week's episode of Rugby Through the League's podcast complete, and we will hopefully have an international rugby player on our next episode. So thank you and goodbye.