Rugby TTL - Series 2 -Episode 16 - James Kent Interview

Inside Luxembourg Rugby: A Conversation with James Kent

In this episode of Rugby Through the Leagues, we are joined by James Kent, who shares his remarkable journey in the world of rugby. From his beginnings in Spain to his current role with Luxembourg Rugby, James provides deep insights into his coaching philosophy, the challenges of building a national team with limited resources, and the intricacies of managing an increasingly international squad. He discusses his experiences working with top-level coaches, the nuances of game preparation, and the importance of continual professional development. Tune in to hear about the exciting developments in Luxembourg Rugby and what the future holds for this growing team.

00:00 Welcome and Guest Introduction
00:12 James Kent's Rugby Journey
01:27 Preparing for the Czech Republic Game
02:56 Building the Coaching Team
04:48 Simplifying the Game Plan
06:31 Challenges and Improvements
07:31 Federation's Vision and Team Identity
10:13 Youth System and Eligibility Issues
14:37 Impact of Playing in the Bundesliga
24:12 Continuous Professional Development
26:57 The Role of WhatsApp in Coaching
30:36 The Importance of Understanding Different Roles
33:59 James' Rugby Journey: From Spain to Luxembourg
39:46 Challenges and Insights in Coaching
48:03 Quick Fire Questions and Reflections

Transcript

James Kent Ep 16

[00:00:00] Hello, uh, welcome to another episode of Rugby Through the Leagues podcast. This week we are joined by James Kent, who's kindly joined us. Polly has joined as well. So James, really appreciate your time mate. Thanks for, thanks for having me on. I went to Rugby Club Luxenberg during the summer. Met a, met a few of the lads.

Obviously you were there for a period of time as well. Yeah. Was it kind of a natural situation for you to become more involved with the, with the national side after being part of, uh, rugby Club Luxembourg? Not really, because I, I mean, I was last involved with the club in 2019 and then I went over to France to work in France for, you know, four or five years.

So, um, it was only really due to the family circumstances. Uh, my wife giving birth to our second, and then us moving back here, uh, after my stint in Paris. So, um. I suppose it's almost come full circle. So it is been, it's been nice, um, because I've, you know, I'm familiar with a few of the guys and others I met for the first time when, you know, three days out from Czech Republic.

So, [00:01:00] um, it was, uh, it's been good though, but like I said, I've, this time round I've been able to actually take the time to, to get to know, uh, know the guys, even the guys who are based offshore. Um, connect with and build relationships there. And, uh, so that's allowed me more time. Um, and then the guys who, some guys who I worked with, I hadn't probably worked with since 2019, uh, it's allowed me to reconnect with them too, so that's been really good.

How did that call call go then? Did you, obviously, as you said, you, you had quite short notice to get ready for the Czech Republic game. How did that, did somebody just say, we've, we've got a situation. You are back in the area. Can you please? Yeah. Like, just, just turn up pretty much. Is that how it went?

That was pretty, pretty much it. Um, 'cause I was, I was still with, um, Monaco Rugby Sevens. We just finished the Super sevens final in Paris. And so there was no conflict of interest there, obviously, anyway. 'cause it's, you know, talking [00:02:00] sevens, um. French sevens at that, and then you're talking, you know, um, trophy, uh, level.

So there was no direct conflict of interest in terms of me being available. I was back in Luxembourg. Um, and, you know, I was, I was here and, uh, here and available, so it was, yeah, very, very short to try and put things together. Um. You know, even in terms of from the logistics point of view, uh, there was a team manager to put in place.

There were assistant coaches to put in place. Uh, I kept my analyst from Monaco on as well as, Hey, I need, need you to gimme a hand. Yeah. S and c as well. So everything was, you know, accelerated. Um, but we managed to get a, a staff together and probably get a, a simplified game plan. Just go to, to Prague with the players that we, we had at our disposal and those that could make it off short notice as well.

So on that James, just, you know, when you put your team together, is it, [00:03:00] do you go to people you know, or is there like a, you know, like a little black book that every, you know, international and suit senior coaches got that they can go, actually these are the guys that I'd like to get involved. Or is it just through friends or, or, or just people you know, in the business and at that, uh, sort kind of level.

Coaching and, and skill sets. So I thought it was a bit like it was an awkward time in the season 'cause it was midseason. So a lot of coaches are, you know, really in the middle of, in the, in the thick of it. So, uh, I relied on, um, Scott Brown, who's former player, the national team now coaching a bit. And, uh, so he, you know, played, he played, uh, 10 and nine as well for the national team.

So. A good attacking head on him. So I, I brought him in. Obviously he was on site. Uh, then I needed someone for the set piece. Um, you know, and a lot of the, I suppose the, the parameters that were sent up [00:04:00] by the, um, by the federation, I could just bring in anyone that had to fit certain criteria as well, certain coaching qualifications and, um, everything that I was, I suppose.

Free enough to try and bring people in, but obviously it had to go through four more channels, I suppose to answer your question in a long-winded manner, it's, it was a mix of both. You know, it's a, the instant connections that we have in terms of timing and who we can get, um, you know, I did reach out to quite a few, a few guys as well, and.

Uh, not everybody was available, and like I said, it was, we just, we made with what we, what we could. And I think in the end now we've had more time to prepare as a staff and I think going forward now we've got, you know, more clarity on everyone's role and, and responsibility. So that definitely makes it a lot easier.

So, as you said there, you had to sort of throw together a simplified game plan. How did you do that at such short notice? First you understand what you have, you know, what, what, what you are working with, because it's all good having the [00:05:00] philosophy, but if you don't have the cattle to do it, then it makes it hard.

So, uh, that was the first, first thing, know what our strengths are, um, where, where can we, you know, be a threat? And then looking at the Czech Republic, where are their threats? And, uh. And how can we counter that? And I think for me, I've always liked to look at a team's, uh, strengths and then try to focus on their strengths rather than go, right, well this is their weakness, let's target their weaknesses.

Um, yeah. So I think if we neutralize their strength, then that puts us in a better, in a better position. You know, like Luxembourg, the, is a good, I suppose, um. Good level of skill. Um, overall on average with the players. You know, we got players playing in France and Spain and the uk, Ireland, Scotland, Holland, Germany, like it just list goes on.

So, um, overall they're well skilled. They could play with pace, um, what we needed to do against, you know, [00:06:00] opposition from the trophy knowing that Luxembourg had been the team that had come up. From conference to trophy, uh, we knew that we had to make, you know, put a big focus on playing territory because if we're playing in the right areas of the game, then opportunities would come and we wouldn't put ourselves under pressure.

Um, so just being able to simplify it that way and then get the guys on board and go, well, this is why we're doing it and this is what it can bring us if we do it and if we stick to it. Um, and I think. We probably didn't do it, um, to the full extent against Czech Republic, but I think with every game we improved and there was a noticeable improvement.

Obviously, Sweden, we got a red card 15 minutes in, so that made it hard. But, you know, my big takeaway was that, you know, with 60 minutes, 60 minutes north, three games, we were 10 or 11 points, uh, you know, away from, from those teams at halftime against Poland. You know, we, we were in the lead. Um. [00:07:00] We, you know, we might even be 20, 20 points to six up and we kick a few goals.

Um, so it's, yeah, a lot of it is, you know, I suppose block by block and. Um, seeing the improvements and that was probably the most rewarding and pleasing thing, was to see how much we'd improved in a short amount of time in regards to those three games, knowing that we finished with probably the hardest game because Poland had come down from championship and so we knew that was probably the yeah, the hardest game to play and we actually played probably our best half of rugby outta those three games against them.

Definitely. What's, um, what have they sort of, what's the federation put in front of you? Is there, is there a timeline with a plan or is it a case of. You've got a bit of an open book to present back to the Federation of how Luxembourg Rugby's gonna look. Um, 'cause obviously you got, when I was there, a lot of the lads are sort of homegrown.

There's a real push for. La lads that are also, there's a lot of 'em that also speak Luxembourg. Luxem, yeah. The [00:08:00] language themself as Yeah. But l so there's, there's a bit more of an identity from players that are there. I got that proper identity feel that the lads are, they're together all week. Yeah. Okay.

They like, it might be an hour and a half across the C city because of the traffic. Everyone's like one part of one big plan. Is that kind of what the Federation want or is there a, a separate sort of schedule in place? I think what we're trying to do as a team from an identity point of view and what the federation, you know, there needs to be the, the same, the vision needs to be there and I suppose that we need to be going the same direction and we need to be aligned on how we get there, but it, we're not necessarily gonna get there the same way.

If that makes sense. Yeah. Because we're almost gonna try and build our team identity rather than us building the federation identity. Uh, because within the federation you've got, you know, the men's, the women's, the junior, the under eighteens. Under the sixteens, um, the sevens, the fifteens. You've got the sevens sevens program.

[00:09:00] Yeah. Seven women's sevens as well. So there's. You know, every team could have their identity. And, uh, whether we try and dig into that sort of, I suppose, cultural and national identity, uh, because Luxembourg in itself is such a melting pot and diverse, um, place to live, you know, you've got over 50% expats, um, within the team.

We're speaking French, we're speaking English. There's obviously luxembourgish. Um, yeah. And so that in itself is, you know, you're constantly going back and switching back and forth. Um, and I think that the biggest challenge is probably that because guys are playing different brands of rugby across Europe.

Um, you've got guys who've played, uh. Probably all of their rugby in France, but are illegible. Uh, some who have only played in Luxembourg, who've all been, you know, at RCO their entire life. So you're trying to, to [00:10:00] merge those guys and obviously different levels as well, so. You're trying to, to merge those together, um, in order for 'em to get Okay.

An understanding of what they can bring individually, uh, and how that can benefit all of us going forward. Because there's quite a, you've got quite a decent sort of youth system over there as well as when I was speaking to the rugby club, Luxembourg legs, they had, they were saying how many numbers are there and how many sort of players that are are involved.

Yeah. Obviously. Do you, have you got much of an impact upon that? Is there, is there a sort of a, a plan for you guys to cascade the, the philosophy of playing downwards? Or is it a case of that's how the national team play a minute? Yeah. I mean, we'll work it out as it goes. I think, uh, I was having this conversation with one of the, one of the, the junior coaches, um, like I think in terms of how we want to play, you know, it's, it's gonna be.

But firstly, [00:11:00] based off genetics, like genetically speaking, what have we got? Because if we had, you know, six, six, 17-year-old African locks, we'd be playing a very different kind of game. Do you know? Yeah. So, so would everybody else. So that's, and you know, that's, that's not really the case for us. Um. I, I'm, I'm involved with the academy as well, so the national academy where, you know, we work with a few kids and, you know, we go get them in the gym and a dojo out in the field every week.

Uh, see them three, three times a week. And I think there, there's a pathway. However, I think one of our biggest constraints is the, the eligibility criteria. Uh, that's now changed, uh, in terms of world rugby because for under eighteens it's a very, it's a different criteria than for seniors. So you might have a kid who's arrived in Luxembourg age 15, 16 'cause his parents have found work here who's a very good player.

You might be able to represent Luxembourg under eighteens, [00:12:00] but because there's only one year of, uh, license, however. As soon as he hits 18, he plays for the seniors. Well, he doesn't have the 10 year residency. Neither his parents are, uh, born here, nor his grandparents nor him, or, and he doesn't fi have five years continuous, uh, registration in a club.

So, and if then, if he goes off to university and he plays rugby and university in the uk, then we lose him because he has to go back to zero. Um, so wow. That really, I know obviously world rugby, the, the 10 year residency was mainly for those tier one nations. Tier two nations. Um, however, for countries with, you know, less than, um, 800,000.

People, it really makes it difficult. Yeah. Um, you know, for, for Tonga for example, obviously they've only got a hundred thousand people, but through Heritage there's a lot more Tongans Yeah. Uh, around the world, you know, whether it's the States or Australia or New Zealand [00:13:00] than there are Luxembourg's, EV Ev, everyone's a cousin as well in Tonga as well.

Yeah. So I'm sure there's always a way in there. So, so even, I mean, even if we were to take, you know, Poland, you know, there's. Yeah. PO was such a massive sort of immigration to the state or Australia or you know, that it's through Heritage, through your grandparent, you're eligible for the, for Poland. Yeah.

Whereas we as a small country don't have that, uh, that advantage and I think. That's one area. So for example, Monaco, they have a different, um, different laws basically because they're able to get guys who yeah, are, you know, in the, the bordering towns of Monaco. Um, whereas if we had also don't know a radius of a hundred kilometers, then maybe.

From the city center of, or Luxembourg city, then maybe, or 150 or 200 kilometers, then maybe that would expand, you know? Okay. Guys who were born Yeah. In France, but grew up in [00:14:00] Luxembourg. Yeah. Or they'd be eligible. You know, they, they might have gone to school their whole lives in, in Luxembourg, but, you know, unless they, if, well, if they, if they don't hit the 10 year residency, then it makes it, you can't pick 'em.

So I think that's our biggest challenge. Yeah. Trying to find, um, you know. I suppose eligible players. Eligible players and trying to, to build depth in competition because obviously the pot, the pot of money I'm sure is not endless as well. So you've also gotta navigate building an academy alongside eligibility.

Yeah. Bringing players in without losing them, going to other places to make money of as a career. Yeah. Rugby Club Luxembourg are now part of the, the newly formed version of the Bundas Leaguer. Um, and obviously. Them traveling to some of the bigger clubs. Does have you noticed much of an impact upon the, the ability that some of the players are already seeing against players?

I know they played in it last season Yeah. But they're now sort of, it's become a little bit more of a, a full-time [00:15:00] model. Yeah. To, to obviously from the coaching side down has, has playing such sides sort of changed what you've seen on training and stuff. Obviously I know you haven't really seen much in the game time, but I think for me, Carl, the biggest.

Positive is that they're playing more games. Um, you know. Yeah. And I, I look at Spain and we both know that the Spanish League, whether it's regional Yeah. Or you're talking, you're playing upwards of 25 games a season. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you're playing third, fifth here in Spain, you're still getting a lot of games through the season game on.

Yeah. And you know, when you look at previous Bunes season where guys are playing 10 games in a, in a season. Yeah, when we played Czech Republic, we had guys who hadn't played since before Christmas and, uh, three months without playing. Really, really because of the winter break that they have. So it's a big ask then to step into an international game, having not, you know, had a proper scrum for three months.

Yeah. And, uh, try and scrum it against, uh, a Czech, a Czech site who are up for it and who have been playing consistently. So, [00:16:00] um, the more game time, the more robust they'll be, the fitter they'll be. Um. You know, and the more learning and development they'll get as well. And to, you know, being able to play under live, uh, we say pressure as opposed to having to go, okay, well come in for a weekend, we can have a look at you.

For me personally, I told the guys that you gotta be playing consistent club, you know, rugby to, to get it looking. 'cause that's the only way that we'll spoke about to get, to get a proper idea of if you're in form, if you're fit and. You can't recreate a much scenario over the course of a weekend, which is when we'd have a camp.

So when we have a camp, when we had one in August, it was based on alignment. This is what we want to do in attack, this is what we wanna do in defense. And we just went from there. Um, what's our off, off field, uh, you know, cultural side looking like and. Realistically that's, you know, then we go ask them to, to play their games and their clubs and we [00:17:00] watch, watch those games.

Yeah. Um, now pretty much every team is, um, you know, using VO or yeah, broadcasting on YouTube or FaceTime similar so, or fa, Facebook. So I think that's probably, you know, the biggest benefit from what I've seen in terms of the restructuring the Bundesliga. Yeah. Do you get an opportunity to then speak to the players?

Um. You know, uh, when obviously you're not on camp and, uh, are you watching their footage and you getting them to do some reviews of their own stuff and give you feedback on, on, on where they're and what they're doing? Yeah. I mean, what have informal conversations? Um, 'cause obviously, you know, the, the club coaches have, you know, or they'll be focused on maybe the skill development side of it or skill acquisition within the club context.

'cause they see them more regularly and they have more contact time than. Than we do. Um, you know, what we'll be looking at is, you know, what, what can, what are they gonna be bringing? And then, okay, well this is what we think you can bring to the [00:18:00] team. And so that's what we'll be looking out for. Yeah, because you've got.

Sorry, because you, you've also got, uh, some of the s and c coach at Rugby Club, Luxembourg's, also your s and c coach at the national level and, and the physio as well. Is that correct? So does, does that help having access on the inside a little bit to make sure lads are actually keeping on? Yes. I think the, so like I said, you know, 60 minutes in all three games we were in there and then those last 20 minutes is where we faded.

And so. The conditioning side of it was basically a non-negotiable. Coming into to this season, we knew that that was a big area that we needed to work on. Um, so having someone like Yannick at both national and club, uh, was a massive boost. Um, you know, because he was, he was having more contact time with was say probably 50% of the players, but he's very diligent as well.

Yeah. And keeping up with the guys who are offshore. Um. And so that's, you know, having that in [00:19:00] in place is def definitely benefited. And, you know, we've been able to see guys' body shape change just since, uh, July when we first started, um, you know, our preseason work. So, uh, that's been really rewarding and I think, you know, obviously it's benefited RCL.

Uh, from their side of things as well. Yeah. 'cause they're, they've got access to a very good strength and conditioning coach in Yannick. Yeah. Really top bloke when I met him as well. And um, he definitely beasted the lads in that session that I saw. That's for sure. So there's no hard, no hard in there. Some of the lads are saying, they obviously you've got training on a Monday and then I think they were training Tuesdays and Thursdays as well.

So Yeah, definitely keep some of them honest, that's for sure. Yeah. Um. Jamie, Jamie, obviously Jamie Comore has come, and Georgia, yeah. How did that conversation go? Did he, did he take mutts convincing or was it a case of it kind of fitted, or when he turned up, did he walk away and say, what the fuck have you signed me up to?

What was, how, how did, how did that conversation [00:20:00] go mean? Um, honestly speaking like I think Luxembourg and Canada, you know, and I'm speaking from experience with Canada, like there was always the. The gap between the guys who were playing at a good standard in France, their top 14 prody, two more England there, the guys playing Doncaster Knights at the time, and, and then guys playing domestically in Canada.

There was always a gap there, guys who were full-time rugby and guys who were working month to five and doing rugby twice a week, playing club rugby in, in Canada. And I think there's a lot of similarities there. Uh, in terms of, um, I suppose who we're working with in terms of the, uh, the profile of player.

At the same time, I think, um, the amount of time that we're together is quite similar as well. Granted to Canada, we'd probably have maybe three days more, you know, before again, we might have a, a full week or five days, six days. Um, so that's probably the second [00:21:00] similarity. Um. And I think the, the third similarity is that the opposition that we play or that we played in terms of Poland, Czech Republic, um, Sweden, they're actually, you know, six or seven spots off the rankings from Canada.

Mm-hmm. They're not, they're not far that, that far off. Do you know? Uh, they're above Germany. They're, so, I think there was a lot of, um, I suppose similarities that I knew. That Jamie could handle, because I know that Jamie, he's not just fresh off playing. He's had, you know, he's had his work in, in, uh, in prove, he's been the general manager there.

He's been the head coach. Uh, he's gone back to Canada, worked at junior level with the academy system, um, worked with, I, I, I worked with him 2014 when he was still a player. Um, yeah. And then. In 2016, uh, he came into the staff for the America's Rugby Championship. So, um, you know, I saw [00:22:00] him coach there and I think, you know, that's a while ago now, and he's, he's gained so much inexperience in terms of being able to transmit the message that he wants to get across.

And I think that's sometimes the, yeah, the biggest, um, the biggest trouble for former players is they've got so much information that they want to get through. That how you pass it on is, is a different thing, especially when you're talking. Short contact time. We were three days before a game. What's the most important thing?

How do I narrow it down into going right? They, I'm going to need two bits of information. If I go even to three or four. They're not even gonna, you know, yeah, it's, and you've got 72 hours. What, what effect can you have? And, um, obviously Jamie brings a presence as well, and I think that's, that's only a, a positive as well when you come into the environment.

And, uh, I know the, the four is, you know, though, they, uh, they probably will want to absorb a lot of the knowledge that he has as well. Um, [00:23:00] you know, there's a bloke who played four World Cups and. A won of top 14, uh, title and played of, I don't know, 200 times for Clemon. So he is got a, again, a wealth of yeah, experience and technical knowledge, uh, that he can pass on to the guys.

Again, even if it's on a one-on-one just conversation. It can be a one-on-one conversation at the airport when we're traveling to, to Norway. Just little, little nuggets of gold. And I think, um, you know, part of my role is also to, to help from that front, but also. Help our staff as well, try and upskill. So Yanik I've put him in touch with.

Yeah. You know, we had a conversation with Twi, who's the head of performance at, at La Rochelle. Um, nice. And just be able to open some doors for them, like Eugene with the team manager that, and say, just to understand what kind of things they do, how can we get better at what we wanna do? Um, you know, and I think, so if we, we can all keep growing that sense and almost have a.

Continuous professional development, [00:24:00] uh, within our staff, bouncing ideas off one another or looking outwards, um, you know, it's, it's gonna be a, a massive positive. And that again, we, I suppose we win a bit of time that way as well. It's interesting to hear that at that level where you talk about the continual press professional development and, you know, from, uh, from my short coaching journey is that it's one of those ones that we, the RFU constantly sort of push out.

There's all of these courses, there's all of these courses. But actually, you know, I think sometimes it's nice to hear that, you know, if you go and speak to other coaches, you go speak to other people, people just wanna talk about rugby and be involved in rugby and that, um, it's interesting to hear that it's not just that.

Levels and grassroots that's happening. I know Eddie Jones talked about it constantly, but it, it's still going on at that top level and it's, that's interesting to hear. And then, you know, for me it's a, these are the sort of opportunities I wanna get to, to be able to push forward in the next few years as well.

Yeah, I mean, I, I, in 2019, I, I spent, um, [00:25:00] a few weeks in New Zealand doing a, you know, coaching course and, and I think my biggest takeaway. There was, was what, uh, Wayne Smith's, you know, share an idea, get three in return. And I think that's the philosophy that I've kept with me since, since then. You know, I've, I've been willing to, you know, put myself out there, have conversations, uh, with coaches, whether it's grassroots, whether it's top 14 or international, or just whether they're strength and conditioning coaches.

Um, like even going on holiday, there's a. To Miami in June. Like I met up with a, a bloke who used to work in rugby, uh, for USA sevens. He was the head of performance working for Miami Marlins baseball, and now he's actually had a, uh, ended up at Scotland Rugby this season. So, but just to understand what they do in baseball and what can we, you know, and just sharing, I suppose mm-hmm.

Um, concepts on that with that, and. I think that's one thing that, again, being able to facilitate some of those exchanges, um, whether it's for the [00:26:00] players or it's for the staff. Um, I think that's part of my role to try and open, open some doors. I've been, I know I've been fortunate enough to build a, a, a, a good size network over the last few years, so, um, and.

Overall, I think rugby, people in rugby are generally good people, and they'd be willing to, you know, give a bit of time and share and they'll, they want to learn as well. Obviously, you've, you've got your, your exceptions as well who are closed off to, to it all. But I think, yeah, you know, if you're, if you're willing to share, then generally it's, it's a two-way street, you know.

So that's, that's, I've been, that's probably my, my philosophy on it, on how I'm looking to continue growing as a coach and, and developing. Oh, had, um, I had the pleasure of having Warren Abraham's on previously, obviously the, yeah. Resting priest to, to Warren obviously the, the sad news of the weekend. But he, he also used to tilt, uh, coach players from a distance as well.

'cause he used to have one-on-one stuff and he said. [00:27:00] WhatsApp was crucial for him in that progress of being able to help advise players away from his current circle. Is that kind of a situation that every coach has now fallen into? Because pretty much every lad's got a, a phone in his hand or on WhatsApp and Yeah.

Uh, lad can you, can we look at this? Can you look at that? Can you, uh, is that kind of how the, how it goes lads? Just get a message across and say. I think this isn't quite working. How would I do that? And like yourself or Jamie just dropping back a say, just take a look at this, or I, I've done this, or speak to this person.

I can tell you now that it's the exact same way of delivering or feedback. That it was at stud on say that it is with Luxembourg. Uh, in terms of the standard, we, we did it the same way after training at stud. We'd clip send couple, couple clips to the players via WhatsApp because even though they're in a club environment, they're still going home to their families or the rest of it.

And we know that they're gonna sit in front of their [00:28:00] phone with players after the game with Luxembourg. Um, you know, I'd send them, either send 'em a few clips or I'd organize, you know, a zoom on a one-to-one and then we, we'd just go through, you know, maybe two or three clips and that'd be it. Uh, or in person.

Yeah. If they were, they were on site. But I love to do the, the WhatsApp, um, one just 'cause I know it's easy for them to look at. Then you don't wanna be sending a two or three minute video because even a two or three minute video is too long. Uh, so generally I try to go, right, well, it's one thing or two things max that I wanna send.

Um, you know, I might throw in maybe like an arrow or two or just a, uh, an example of what it should look like. Um, but for me it's a huge tool. And having been a skills coach, it helped a lot with the skill acquisition process because it allows you to, to show what the end goal. [00:29:00] Should look like and guys have got different ways of learning.

Like Yeah. You know, someone have told me that they don't like to see themselves do it. They prefer to see someone at the elite level do it. Someone at, you know Yeah. And understand. Okay. Because they're obviously gonna be very, uh, critical of themselves in that sense. And so they might be overly critical and they go, oh, I'm still not getting it right.

I'm still a perfectionist in them. Whereas if it's. You know, someone at the top end of their game doing it. Okay, that's what the end goal would look like. And this is where I'm at now, and they can actually, you know, build a, build a link there. Um, but WhatsApp for me has been, has been super important. That, and being able to, I think every coach now needs to have a, an understanding of, um, how to code, how to, to clip, uh, you know, not have to rely on the, on the analyst to, to do it on.

Mm-hmm. I think that's just the, the basics. And even, even in terms of, you know, keynote or PowerPoint, um, you try and bring things to, to life a little bit, and [00:30:00] I think if you fall into the trap of Right, just a basic slide, what does that, yeah. How does that affect their retention? Do you know? Especially, like I said, we're mentioning, we're talking about short contact time.

It needs to be punchy, it needs to be, uh, dynamic. It needs to be memorable. And that for me is, is been okay. Two big things is, uh, let's make the, the meetings fun, let's make 'em dynamic. Not just sit there and look through a bloody playbook of, you know, you know, X's and O's. Let's strong, bring it to life a little bit.

Yeah, it, as you said, like the analyst is important, but if you don't understand what analysis, and it's like any job as well, and it like any, anyone running a business, if you don't understand. Roles. Roles, what a role can do. You can have the wall pulled over your eyes. And how, how much, how much do you think that's helped?

'cause obviously you've, you've done the analyst side, you've done other, you've done the skills coach, you've done all of these other roles to [00:31:00] get to this point. How many people do you think kind of bypass those fundamental building blocks? Um, do you think that hold holds 'em back? Or do you think because they've got to that point.

Do they just then look to bring the best person in, but also if you don't have the money there to bring the best people in it. Do you think you've, you feel like you've trod the right path by building the blocks yourself and then getting to know the role itself as well? Well, I mean, it's like your, your, you know, your comparison to doing it in your standard job.

For me, I like the analogy basically, if you're a hotel manager. You've gotta understand how reception works. You've gotta understand how room service works. You've gotta understand how the kitchen, the restaurant, the uh, concierge laundry, you gotta understand how it all works, because if something happens, then you are responsible for it and you've gotta find a solution.

Yeah, and I think the more experience you've had in a different department, whether it's SNC or physio. Um, you know, or [00:32:00] analysis or management or whatever it might be, it's gonna be applicable as a coach. Or maybe you've coached set peace and now you're coaching defense, or you've coached attack and now you're coaching defense, you know, whatever it might be.

I think it lents itself well, yeah. Um, to have a broader understanding in terms of first practical knowledge. But if you're in a head coach position, yeah. You need to understand the reality of some of the other roles. Um, I know having been in none of this Yeah. That I'm not gonna ask our Anna this to do an endless amount of, you know, a, a 10 hour shift of individual coding for stats that.

You know, we're not really gonna look at or use because I know it's a waste of time. Yeah. 'cause I've been, I've been there myself. Um, just like an s and t might look at it and go, right, well, I'm not gonna do this particular session because I know it's not gonna be beneficial from a physical point of view 48 hours before a game.

Um, so I think it allows you to be more empathetic [00:33:00] in terms of your management style. If you're the head coach that is Yeah. Um, you understand what's feasible and what's not. Um. So, but I think getting an understanding of the, the game from, well, not just the game, but different areas from a 360 perspective.

Like I, I try and learn from, from the physios so you get an understanding. If someone tells you about sick injury in the back of your mind, you go, oh, okay, well I understand that. I know potentially what the return to play looks like. Uh, I know how many weeks they might be out. Yeah. I'm no doctor, I'm no physio, but you know, no, it just, you, you, you pick things up along the way and you, okay, that means this, this means that.

And I think it helps you in that sense. No. Nice. And then obviously players will also tell you a different bit as well, so if you've played it probably helps trying to navigate around that. Yeah, yeah. Obviously we've, we've, we've gone through the current day and age of where, where, where we are now. So, [00:34:00] James, you've got quite a.

Long list of experience, mate. So it'd be, it'd be great to sort of get back to where the journey began and where, where you've gone on the journey. For those that aren't aware, mate, to be honest. Where did, where did it all, where did the spark for rugby start in Spain, 2000 and, uh, seven. I go up there or go down there rather, um, 19 years old and, you know, end up playing a little bit.

End up playing for, for Al Bendis did my ACL beginning of the season was out for. You know, pretty much the whole 11 months came back, went back to there and was still playing. And then, um, 2011, um, I helped found the, uh, the bar Barss, Madrid barbarians, myself and two others. Basically started that club, uh, from, nothing went when we started going up in the, in the division from, I, I suppose I was still playing, um, but I was doing a little bit of coaching there as well.

And then I suppose from there. [00:35:00] 2012. So there, there weren't too many jobs in Spain. Uh, by the time I finished uni there, it was the, just out of the recession in 2010. Uh, so that was, yeah. Yeah. Had to sort of look a look abroad. Rugby was, at this point, probably still more of a hobby than anything. And I, I end up going to, um, end up gonna New York for six months.

To work for a startup there in marketing. And then out of the blue mate of mine from Madrid sent me this thing from USA rugby saying that the inaugural, uh, ward Rugby Sevens was taking place. The Women's Sevens was taking place in Texas, in Houston. So I basically applied for this liaison officer role there for a couple weeks.

Took a couple weeks off work, went down there and I was assigned to the Canadian team probably 'cause I spoke French. And, um, yeah, yeah, from there, mate, I just, I stayed in comms with the high performance manager at the time. It was, um, Steve Lanker who'd just come over from New Zealand, from the Crusaders and yeah, uh, I [00:36:00] told him, look, I, I don't think the cubicle life is for me.

So, uh, if, if something ever comes up, you know, I'll be willing to relocate and. Six months later, I got a message from him and he said, look, we've got something. Uh, it's only three months to begin with, but you know, you never know. And I, so I went over to Canada late 2013 and, um, three months ended. Ended up to being four years with him.

Um, went back to Spain, got involved with Alend again, but from a coaching perspective. And then, um, from there, uh, my girlfriend at the time, now wife. Uh, found a job in Luxeburg, so we moved over here. Uh, I finished up with Canada 2017, and then by that point I'd realized that, okay, well rugby was what I wanted to.

To get involved with, you know. And 2015 I fractured my tibia as well. So I was well and truly done. Same leg as I did the ACL, uh, did that Brilliant, did that in Valencia, ended up in a ambulance from Valencia to Madrid. [00:37:00] So that was a good long old ride. And uh, yeah. And then after that I just turned all my attention to, you know, trying to, I suppose, forge away.

'cause I've, you know, I'd not gone through, I suppose, the professional ranks that. You know. Yeah. Some, some guys have, and I've, I've coached at a level that I would never have played at. Um, you know, yeah. I I wouldn't have been playing top 14 by any means. So, um, but I think for me it's been. Fulfilling in that sense because it's allowed me to see, well, if, you know, by having an open sort of mind about it and being willing to put yourself in a position, yeah.

You can actually, um, you know, get to meet people or give you an opportunity, give you a chance, and if you're willing to work hard for it, then as cliche as it is, um, doors do open, you know, and, um, yeah. And so yeah, from. From Luxembourg, um, started, I got in touch with, uh, Ko Poto, who was the Germany coach at the [00:38:00] time.

Um, yeah. And, uh, then he moved to the academy there and, um, started working a little bit with him. Uh, so I started gonna Paris on a basic weekly basis for a couple days a week, just helping the under eighteens at the time, but then moved to the. There's a guy there who worked with the FFR, who worked with the French under twenties.

Yeah. Who told me that they were looking for an analyst, so then jumped over there as well. And that ended up being, I suppose, a, an analyst and skills coach. Went back to the academy at stud. This was like at the same time, I guess. Um, and then from there, the French seniors, which then off the back of that, uh.

Helped me, I suppose, get a, a gig with the, the protein that started and with that came Monaco and then full circle back to Lux. So yeah, it's, wow, it's a bit, a bit of a domino effect in that sense. But I suppose if [00:39:00] you go back to 2010 when I was. You know, it, I cold pitch and, and Madrid coaching, the bar coaching 12 guys at the bar bars where, where that I'd be, you know, coaching in, in 2022.

Like, I, I probably wouldn't have, wouldn't have thought it'd be possible, but rugby I suppose is, is a little bit like that in terms of, you know, as global as the game is. It's a very much a small sport, um, you know, is people that know people in the, you know, the, I suppose, um, you know, you're. One or two handshakes away from pretty much anyone in, in rugby.

So, so when you, obviously you, you kind of got into those roles, as you said, you didn't, you probably coached at a level higher than you'd ever played. Mm-hmm. Did you, did you ever, ever blip and feel like you had, you were an imposter syndrome? Yes. Like [00:40:00] you wondered why you should be there? Yeah. Uh, yeah.

Yeah, a lot of the time. But with France it was slightly different because if you are there, you are there for a reason and the players know that. Yeah, if you weren't good. Okay, so the wouldn't, you wouldn't be there in the first place. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. You know, if you're wearing, you know, you're in your France, get you Okay.

It must, he must be there, uh, for, for good reason. Whereas at club you, you know, I suppose you have to show that you are willing to put in the work, you're willing to help the players accompany the players. You're there for the right reasons. Um, yeah. And. At the end of the day, like rugby is rugby. Yeah. So if rugby is rugby, but the other side of that is that okay, you need to be able and be winning.

And this applies whether it's grassroots or professional. You gotta be able to help 'em to get from A to B. You know, there's the essence of of coaching, right? So. If you're able to [00:41:00] do that, then they trust you in that. And then hopefully you can help them, um, on that, on that journey. But, uh, you know, there were a few times when, you know, you'd be there and you are like, oh, he's, you know, I'm gonna gotta do a session with, you know, Marcus Kramer.

And you're thinking, you know, he's 24, he is already got 50 caps for the, for the pus. And he's, you know, but. Those guys are so, um, dedicated to their craft on the whole, that they're wouldn't just to pick up any, you know, bit of knowledge that they can or, uh, work on their game. Yeah. Just to, to be the best.

Um, and yeah, I think, um, it's quite nice though having been having had those experiences and then come back to, to Lux because for me, I know that. What we had at French International level, we won't have, we don't have the same resources. We don't have the same infrastructure. We don't have the same, you know, so it's, it's [00:42:00] not realistic to think like that With Canada, I know that there are probably still some margin, but I know what's possible.

Yeah. And what's not possible and haven't worked with the men's, uh, in Canada. I know that they probably had a bigger budget than what we do with Luxembourg men's, but then at the time the women's had zero budget, but we still made it to a World Cup. Uh, world Cup final. You know, in, in 2014. Yeah. And that's allowed me to understand.

Okay. You don't necessarily need the financial means to get success. Um, it helps. No, a hundred percent. Um, but if you can do what and control what's, what's in your control and build on what you have, uh, then hopefully success follows. But I think coming full circle is, you know, giving me a bit more, uh, understanding of what's important, uh, when building a program with, with limited means.

You must, how'd you sort of sit there and ma mastermind that? Do you just sort of, as you said, you inherited it at such a short notice, [00:43:00] you had a period of time of trying to bring in what you could. Now you've obviously got a bit of a vision and a, an expectation. Have you got like a, a mind map drawn on the wall behind you?

Have you got like a, a plan of how, how you foresee it gonna happen? Or is it a case of, I dunno, camera's facing that way? It's up here. I don't know how you see that. Yeah, yeah. I'll say reflection, but, uh, no, I do, I do like, I do like, uh, a mind map actually, to be fair. And I, I like to, to brainstorm and go, right, well, what, what leads to what and what does that look like?

And then yeah, you, it's almost like a process of elimination. Then you, you're left with this. Yeah. And you go, okay, well what's important now this we can do without this, is it, is it gonna help us per perform? You know? Um, yeah. Ultimately. Is it gonna be a hindrance? Um, even, even, you know, things that are traditionally done in clubs or teams, you sort of have to start questioning it and go, well, just because it's, you know, [00:44:00] something that's done worldwide, is it actually worth it?

Is it for, is it applicable to us? Um, just because they, they do it at the top end doesn't mean we should do it. Or just because you're at the top end and they do it, you know, at another level. You know, we should try and copy and paste it. And if you go, you know, any, anywhere around the world, any club around the world, it's pretty much the same.

You'll see the same drills at the bottom end, as you'll see at the top end. You know, you're see in under sixteens, you'll see it, and it's just the speed at which it's done. Um, yeah, the collisions are different, obviously, and subtleties are different in terms of the, the detail that you go into. But when you're looking at a training session, and especially you're talking about, you know, games or drills.

They're pretty much the same. They're just variations. Um, yeah. But in terms of off field preparation, then that's when you have to actually start looking and go, right, well, what can I cut away? Um, to try and allow us more time. In [00:45:00] terms of, you know, preparation on, on that, are you, are you quite rigid with your routines in terms of your prep ready for a week?

You know, I know, uh, I, I'm, I'm, I've been like that and I know lots of other coaches have been like, this is what we're doing. This is how we're gonna do it. This is what we're gonna. We're gonna get to, and, and this must be my journey, and therefore I expect my players to sort of follow that same thing. Are you, are you quite rigid or are you, are you aware that you've got players coming from different backgrounds?

Uh, you know, who, who are, some are probably more professional, I guess, is that the right word? More professional than others, so they've got a different mindset or do you just trying to create their own individual mindset? Or is it a team, whole team approach when it comes to game days? Come Saturday. I think you, you, you gotta be flexible in certain areas, you know, like a planning of a week, you know, you send out the planning for me, like being on time is a non-negotiable.

For example, um, obviously, you know, shit happens and you know, [00:46:00] life happens at times, but if there's a reason why, then sometimes you can justify it. But being on time. And being honest for me are the two non-negotiables, because if you are honest, first off on the field about the effort, about how you review yourself, about how conversations that we have, um, but you know, the first one is, is being on time.

But planning, when you've got a planning, a planning needs to be flexible. Um, because if it's not, and everything is okay at 10 o'clock on Thursday, we say we're doing this, or sometimes, especially at this level, not everything is. You know, uh, available to you because maybe a member of the public or member of the public is still in the sports hall that you wanted to use.

Whatcha you gonna do? You can't do anything about it, you know? Or the bus took a wrong turn. What are you gonna do? You know, you just say you have to adapt. And so it's, it's about finding that balance between constantly adapting and not letting that affect the players. And [00:47:00] then how they react to that.

Well, they'll react how you react to it. But I'm still rigid on. I think on structure because I like to, I like to know what's next. Um, and I think that helps the players as well. 'cause if you clarity breeds confidence. So the earlier I can tell them what the weeks look looks like, then they know. Okay. This is where I've got some downtime.

This is where, yeah. Uh, I've got the gym, or this is where I've got a higher intensity session so I can get mentally prepared for it. Um, so all of those little things come into play. Um, and I know for me, like if, if you've got the whole week ahead and you've got the pain of the week, then at least you, you've got no real excuse.

You can work around that. Yeah. You know, but if you know you've got a meeting or whatever, then you've got physio beforehand, then you can. You can juggle it, whereas sending the, the planning like the day before for the next day, I've [00:48:00] always found that very hard to deal with. I think we've gone pretty full circle.

Just wanna finish up with a, a little q and a though, James. Yeah. Quick fire questions, mate. All right, so we're gonna go. What was the, what's the best atmosphere you've ever experienced? Best atmosphere I've ever experienced. Uh, I think, uh. Two, two of them, 2014 World Cup semifinal with the women's beating France in Paris.

Um, yeah, that was unbelievable, unbelievable feeling. 'cause they were the, the favorites. And so we, uh, yeah, we, we beat them. I've said lost things and after that, but that feeling and that environment was, was unbelievable. And then, uh, the second one probably, um. With St. Beating Ruing at Ruing on a Christmas Eve, so it was the 24th of December, Christmas Eve game, and we go there to the arena, um, we put 40 on him and yeah, it was an unbelievable Christmas present.[00:49:00] 

I can imagine. Yeah. What was the most host hostile ground that Rochelle could get? Pretty hostile. Yeah. Peron. Peron. What's Peron? What's the, if you had to replay one game again? With a different result, what would it be? World Cup final? Yeah. Uh, best after Match Scran that you've ever had. Probably, um, France versus Wallabies.

Um, in Brisbane. Uh, best play you've ever coached or sort of been around? Played around Kremer in fifteens, uh, play in 15 sevens then to South Africa. Gone. Ed, last one. Who's the best coach you've ever coached with? Probably between Paul Guar two Eng, two Englishmen if, but probably Paul Guar or, or Sean Edwards.

There's one blo I would give him a shout out to just because of his, uh, the way he thought about rugby and the different, I suppose, uh, switches on drills that he [00:50:00] had is Ben Herring. Um, I, I, I've interviewed Ben. What a bloke. Yeah, what a bloke as well. He, he had a great way of, um, just. You know, seeing the game, but also like very creative ways of, uh, setting up games and drills and yeah, he was a.

He's a good one as well. Yeah. When we, we had him on at the start of this series and yeah. Great, great guest. Yeah. Um, and obviously he is managed to get some amazing people on his podcast as well, so, well, well worth a listening. That one as well if you haven't already, but. Um, James, just wanna say thank you so much for jumping on everyone.

Thank you so much for joining, uh, rugby through the League's podcast this week. We had James Kent on obviously, what a guest, what, what a rugby journey and who knows, maybe we can get Jamie Comore on to, uh, tell us his ying to his yang for, for James for Rugby Luxembourg, and, uh, how [00:51:00] the Luxembourg nation's gonna.

Change in the in the future for everyone that wants to follow up our other episodes, all on YouTube, everything like that as well. So click the follow button, make sure you get subscribed to our our future episodes. And thank you and goodbye.