Rugby TTL - Series 2 - Episode 13 - Scott Steele

Scott Steele: From Early Rugby Retirement to Transitioning Careers | Rugby TTL Podcast

Welcome to another episode of Rugby Through the League's podcast. This week, we feature Scott Steele, a phenomenal rugby player we reached out to after the Adam McBurney interview. Steele shares his remarkable journey, from pulling on the Scottish jersey to an early retirement at 30. Steele walks us through his rugby career, the highs and lows, and how he transitioned from professional rugby to a new career. This episode dives into the importance of transferable skills, the differences between rugby clubs, and the role of rugby values in personal development. For those transitioning out of pro sports or interested in rugby careers, Steele provides valuable insights and advice.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
01:37 Scott Steele's Early Rugby Career
04:42 Challenges and Triumphs at London Irish
06:12 Transition to Harlequins and National Team Success
07:33 Injuries and Decision to Retire
09:24 Post-Retirement Career and Reflections
13:38 Impact of Rugby Values in New Career
16:03 State of Rugby in Schools and Clubs
24:06 Playing Club Rugby Post-Retirement
27:26 Transitioning Out of Professional Rugby
32:54 Exploring Career Options Beyond Rugby
33:24 Challenges in Scotland's Rugby Transition
35:04 The Unique Culture of London Irish
39:21 Memorable Moments and Highlights
44:14 The Reality of Youth Players in Rugby
48:01 The Journey to the Scottish National Team
55:44 Reflections on Rugby Career and Retirement

Transcript

Carl: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of Rugby Through the League's podcast. So this week we have managed to get Scott Steele on. Scott reached out after, uh, the Adam McBurney interview and was, uh, his story is phenomenal to tell. Obviously had to retire quite early on in the game. And now we wanna see how his exit from the game has been managed and where he is now with, with his rugby and obviously if he's continued.

Um, Scott, really appreciate your time mate, and uh, thanks for coming on. Obviously joining us from Sunny Scotland by the looks of it at the minute. No 

Scott Steele: thanks. Great to, great to get on. Great to chat. Um, we had a bit of technical issues this morning, but good to get by that and, uh, get on and chat. Yeah, I saw your, your interview Adam.

Um, obviously his story of going from, I played well, I was at Edinburgh when he was there, and then hearing how it's been, uh, over in his new sort of, um. Chapter of his rugby career and seeing the differences and everything like that. I thought it was a real good insight and it's been [00:01:00] really interesting to chat to him with that.

Um, rugby clubs can differ even in the same league, just different environments, but him going over there, it's a completely sort of new, new experience for him and something that he'll, he'll pick up a lot of things and things probably could be done differently and a bit better, but, um, it's the sort of guy that that just goes into stuff head on.

So it was great to hear. 

Carl: Yeah. Really, really great guest. And as you said, he just. Grabs, it carries on. He is obviously had his ups and downs as most rugby players had, but he's actively trying to change his, his future as well. So it's, it's great to, to get him on, obviously for those that aren't aware.

Scott, obviously you've, you retired quite early on, you, you're 30 when you retired, correct? Yeah. 

Scott Steele: Uh, so just, yeah, 30, so that season I would've, I would've turned 31 in July after my contract. So 30, 31, um, a bit earlier than I'd obviously anticipated or I'd hope 

Carl: So. Obviously, before we get to, to that element and potentially the doom and gloom of, uh, the end of your, your pro [00:02:00] career, what you, you enjoyed quite a, quite, you, you went up and down the, the sort of leagues you played a bit.

Obviously you managed to pull on the, the Scottish jersey as well, mate. So for those that aren't aware, can you explain where you were, what you'd done, and how we, uh, how we're now sat here talking about this? 

Scott Steele: Yeah, yeah. So, um, so I grew up and EY Southwest Scotland. Did all the age group stuff through Scotland.

Um, and then in my last year of, of school, I got a scholarship to a boarding school, uh, up in Edinburgh Merchiston So that was the first sort of step where it was right, this could hopefully lead to somewhere going into more of a full-time environment, if you will, uh, training a lot more than you would with a, a local club or, um, sort of not just a Tuesday, Thursday, there was a lot more rugby.

It was better coaching. Um, and it was a great setup. So that was when it sort of professional was, I didn't really think about it too much before that, but got that opportunity, [00:03:00] which was great. And in my last year I was hoping to get a contract with Glasgow, Edinburgh, um, or Scotland Sevens. Obviously in Scotland, it's, it's not like England where there's, you know, lots of teams and you've got sort of the primary ship and then the championship below and even national one.

So, uh, they've got. Quite a lot of players and not many of them get the opportunity. 'cause there's, there's not many opportunities at pro level. So I didn't, I didn't manage to pick up a contract, which, uh, was sort of a bit of a disappointment was the first sort of test of resilience and saying, where'd I go from here?

What did I do? Um, had a club team lined up, uh, what, so in Edinburgh, which I was sort of hoping to play with and then sort of get back into the pro system. Um, but just through playing with someone at under 18 Scotland managed to get a trial down at Leicester Tigers. Um, went down there for two weeks. They just had Christophe Ridley, the referee.

 the number nine, he, uh, he was playing at the time, [00:04:00] had another shoulder issue so he, he had to retire. Um, and they basically were running the one scrum half. So I just went down for two weeks, trained pretty well there. And off the back of that, played in the JP Morgan Sevens and. Even though we got absolutely smashed every game, and I got set loads of times, uh, they sort of saw something in me.

They sort, sort saw something and I managed to get a, a one year academy contract there. Um, ended up playing a few games, uh, again through injury and the likes of Ben Youngs going away and an, and it was, that was just a really lucky opportunity. Managed to play a few times off the bench and off the back of that.

Got another couple of years sort of as a bus team player at Leicester. So three years there and then moved away to London, Irish to try and get some more game time. Um, I was on loan at Loughborough playing a national one. Uh, which was good. Playing any sort of rugby is good than just sitting there holding a bag at training, which is, uh, pretty [00:05:00] depressing.

Um, you are a rugby player, but you're not actually playing any rugby. So, uh, a few guys I'd, I'd went to London, Irish from Leicester before me and they'd played. So I thought, right, this is sort of make or break. If I go to Irish and I don't play, it's not gonna be great to try and, yeah, jump back up or probably have to drop down the championship.

But luckily went there, worked hard. Coaches liked me, became a, a starter in my first year and I ended up playing because at 30 odd games in my first year. So I was delighted with that, how that went. Spent six years at London, Irish in that time. We got relegated twice. Came back up twice. Um, so that was an experience going from premiership to championship.

Uh. Going from getting beat every game in the premier ship to then winning every game in the championship. It's very different. Um, so I did that and then towards, I was expected to get another contract to Irish. I sort of saw myself playing there until I finished. I, I loved the club. Uh, they gave me my chance, [00:06:00] so I was, I was really happy to stay there.

But, um, came a time where it was to do with salary cap fitting and budgeting and all this sort of stuff. So got let, let go from there, which was really disappointing. Managed to pick up a Academy contract when I was 27, so a big pay cut to go to Harlequin and then it got cut again 'cause of COVID cuts. So, uh, I think I was on from like 30, 37 and a half grand was the lowest they could cut you to.

So that's what I was on, um, after I'd been earning over. Six figures at Irish. 'cause I'd been there so long and sort of worked my way up, but I had nothing else I had, I was like, that's it. So, uh, I had a bit of savings that I was able to do, like living in London. It's not the cheapest. So, um, managed to do that.

But then after seven games of playing for Harlequins for the first time I was in the Scotland stuff, so it was the least amount of money I'd been on PJs. But then that was the most successful part of [00:07:00] my, of my career. So, uh, played with them, went on and played for Scotland. Got into two or three camps, uh, an Autum series, uh, six Nations.

Ended up playing four games in the Six Nations and then got picked to go on the summer tour, which then got canceled 'cause lads got COVID before we headed out to play Georgia and stuff. Um, so three years in total at Harlequins. A lot of. Injury issues, uh, in my second uh, and third season there. And then managed to get a contract up at Edinburgh, which is a bit of a miracle 'cause my medical history wasn't great.

Um, luckily the medical wasn't too intense and got through it. Phoned up my dad straight away. I was like, I passed my medical. He was like, no way. I was like, yeah. So I was, I pushed for a two year contract with him, but I would've felt quite bad if I actually got that then, because I turned up, did preseason.

It was a long [00:08:00] preseason 'cause the World Cup was on, uh, I had reoccurring hip issues and it was, yeah, and needed a, hip resurfacing and I did a, a metal hip put in. So, um, that was a pretty big op and I sort of made up my mind early that I was gonna retire after that. Um, more because. Of the other injuries I had back surgery, I'd had hernias that had kept getting niggles with Wow.

Just stuff that's shoulders and ankles, reoccurring injuries at the time, you get better, but then later down the line it gets a bit sore. So, um, it was more of a, my whole body was Yeah. Wasn't feeling great. Um, and I thought playing with a metal hip, I wasn't the quickest anyway. I'm not gonna be quick with a metal hip.

Uh, but what's Quicken was all right, back in the day. But it's really, it's really hard Yeah. To, to manage that. You need to practice it a lot. But if you can't do that, or if you do practice, it's gonna probably cause more problems with my hip. It was, it was a real tough [00:09:00] balancing act. I remember being at Edinburgh, the coach was saying that.

You need to, like all the nines need to be practicing their kicking more. Like, if I practice my kicking more, my hip's gonna be more jacked up than I can't train as well and I can't play. So I thought, this is, it's pretty stressful and it's your job and you're trying to prove, yeah, that you can do stuff, but you are basically hiding the fact that you're, you're struggling with injury.

So decided after that season that would step away. Um, got a job lined up and it was quite a good year in terms of, I had a bit of time to, to sort of figure that out and, and get stuff sorted with that. So, um, that's a quick snippet of my rugby career. A lot of up and downs, um, as you said. But, uh, overall, absolutely, absolutely loved.

It 

Carl: was the, was the aim always to be a pro player? When you, as you as a kid, did you always say, I actually wanna become a pro? Or was it just as you said, you kind of in the right place, right time and the opportunity presented itself or, 

Scott Steele: uh. I, I'm really [00:10:00] not sure. I definitely don't think it was, I want to be a pro player 'cause that would've been, I would've had that in my mind the whole time.

But there was definitely a point when it was, I think like representative stuff at Scotland, when you sort of sit around, you realize, right, well, I'm thought of as the best player at under seventeens. Um, and the best group of players at under seventeens or eighteens. You sort of go, well, it was only then that I really sort of started to click.

I played football a lot growing up as well and was pretty good at that and was, it got to a stage where I sort of, it was a bit more traveling for the football. I played up in Kamar, which was an hour and 40 minutes away from. Uh, so I'd have to like, leave straight from school, dad or uh, one of my other mates that was playing Wow.

His dad take us up and then away days it would be up to Glasgow and Aberdeen and in like it was your whole weekend was like taken up. And that was from sort of [00:11:00] 13 to 16. And I was still managing to sneak the odd rugby game in on a Sunday when I could just walked out the schedule, which the football coaches ended up hearing about and they weren't too happy.

But, um, yeah, so when I sort of knocked that on the head more just 'cause I wasn't enjoying it, um, I enjoyed playing football, but there wasn't, it was basically in the car up there pretty straight down. Wasn't getting much time to, to really socialize with the lads or anything like that. If I was living in Glasgow Kaman, it would've been a different story, I'd say.

Um, but it was only when I knocked that on the head and then. I sort of age group stuff that I thought, well, yeah, got a chance here, but it wasn't my be all and end all. I sort of wanted to, had it in my, in my sort of aim to go to university and do PE teaching. Um, that was sort of my goal. So my, my dad did that and my brother did that.

Um, so it was never, it wasn't one of these stories where we hear guys [00:12:00] go like, I was all in on this. It was everything or it, it wasn't really like that. And I think if anything, it probably helped me because it sort of takes the pressure off of it if you've got something else lined up and you're playing for all the right reasons.

And if you have a bad game where you get injured, it's not the end of the world sort of thing. Nice. 

Carl: So obviously PE teacher then, have you actually ended up being a PE teacher? Is that, is that where you've ended up or is that still on the back burner as a, as another backup at the end? 

Scott Steele: Yeah, so not a PE teacher, but funnily enough I've ended up working with a company that goes into secondary schools in works with.

Seeing your kids in the last couple of years at schools. Um, and it's working more on their sort of meta skills. They call it soft skills, social skills to build their confidence, um, basically to get them sort of geared up to go into the real world, to, to go into jobs and, and sort of, um, have them people skills.

So there's a lot of crossover from sport. Um, and it's also been handy having sort of my dad and my brother [00:13:00] who are used to teaching to, to ask their side of things because, um, it's quite intimidating actually going into a secondary school. Sitting down in front of kids that don't have a clue who you are, they don't particularly care what they're about to say.

You know, you go in there and they're just looking up, they're not even paying attention. You're going, right. Okay. So it's, it's, it's been a real deep learning curve, but something now that I've got, got grips with them. Yeah. Pretty 

Carl: ruthless kids. And they, if they've, uh, if you've got no attention, you, you soon, now you soon find out pretty sharpish.

Yeah. 

Scott Steele: They don't even, don't even pretend to listen. 

Carl: Don't even game over. Even pretend to listen. 

Scott Steele: Even hide their emotions just off the bored. Like, ah, see you later. 

Carl: How much is the, obviously the rugby values that we all, we all love and sort of embrace, how, how much do you think that's made that role easier trying to pass those soft skills across to those tho those kids that do want to listen to you rather, rather than watching out the window?

Scott Steele: I, I do slowly win them over. It could take weeks and weeks, but they do, they do eventually start listening. [00:14:00] Um, it is huge and I always thought whilst I was playing rugby and you heard people talk about. Transferable skills from pro sport into, and to be honest, I was like, like it can't be that, it can't be that good or it's only in the person's interest that saying it that it's gonna be, oh, there's so many transferable skills.

So I, I sort of was going into it, I was like, I think I'm just gonna have to learn this and it'll be sort of brand new and it'll be different. But to be honest, there is loads to take away and it's more stuff that you've picked up from habit than you're intentionally knowing, right? This is about teamwork and collaboration or sort of respect and all this sort of stuff.

It's just actions that you've watched other people older than me in my rugby career or coach, sort of set out structure. And you just do it by sort of habit and behavior. And then you step away and you go into a different environment and you realize that there's people that are not used to that and very different backgrounds.[00:15:00] 

So it has been a real eyeopener to sort of take a step back and really break down. Of, of rugby and how that sort of can help, um, not just rugby, but all sports can, can help people in different situations and sort of build them and get more confidence and basically become a bit more, um, comfortable within who they are, but also able to help each other and sort of not make it.

Just because I think kids these days that they're a bit intimidated about Yeah. Being judged. It's a massive thing. So, um, talk about being judged in a rugby environment. If you go in and, you know, you'll get told straight away if you're, you're a bit cocky or you, you think bit too highly of yourself, but in a way it sort of brings everyone down at the same level and then you go from there and no one's gonna start anyone off or working hard.

Like that's the bare minimum. So, um, that has been a lot of things that I actually look back on now and I think, all right. Okay. That's, that's not the norm for. Someone that's not been in [00:16:00] a professional environment or any sort of sporting environment. Yeah, exactly. 

Carl: What's, uh, what's most of the schools you go to, do they, do they embrace rugby?

Because I know it's a lot of school in, especially in the uk, most regions they can't, they can't cover it because of the lack of teachers, lack of, uh, knowledge, et cetera. Is it, is it still pretty well embraced in Scotland or is it sort of faded out towards the, the, the push towards football, like most easy options?

Scott Steele: Yeah, it's, it's, I think it's pretty similar in Scotland compared to, to England anyway, in terms of the private schools are all very much rugby heavy. Um, they've got the resources, uh, people will send their kids to a school because it's known for its rugby program and stuff. Schools that I work in, they're just state schools.

Some of them, um. I work down in the Scottish borders, which is um, filled with towns that are Yeah, for rugby towns. Um, so that [00:17:00] they still have it, but it would still probably be more in towards the clubs than the schools themselves. Some of them have got schools rugby programs, which are really good. Uh, the SRU try to help out by putting development officers in schools as well.

Um, but overall I think the availability, it's, it's school, it's dependent school by school. There's not a real push for it overall In Edinburgh, in Glasgow, like you said, it'll be football, it'll be the, the main sports of the state schools 'cause it's easier to do and sort of numbers and involvement and stuff like that.

But there has been over the last couple of years, a few schools that have became state that are state schools that have became Okay public schools and appreciate as well. Um, but I think it's quite tricky 'cause you get guys that go to these schools and then as soon as they leave school. It's ultimately I wanna play for a better team and they'll sort of move away from that sort of pathway.

So it's a hard one to get right, especially in Scotland with only two pro teams. It's [00:18:00] quite a tricky one. 

Carl: Do you think that is a limitation? 'cause obviously whales are probably going through the, the rebuild of there's rumblings that they might reduce from four to two. Do you think there's the capacity for, for Scotland to have more than two teams and would that make that a better availability for, for the development or is two teams probably where Scotland sit and you get the best available around?

Yeah, 

Scott Steele: I probably think unfortunately is between two and three. I don't think they would have enough to really make it. Uh, they obviously tried it. I dunno when, like a long time ago the, the board reversed. They tried to give that a go. But I think it is unfortunately that especially with the amount of kids playing it and coming up, there's not enough to sort of go into these, these teams, they would probably have two decent teams and then a third team that would just, it would be able to compete.

I think it's been quite interesting watching [00:19:00] how Italian rugby have went around it in terms of Truvio. They've sort of stacked that, put a lot of investment into that and then using Zebra as almost a development. So that's like mainly all Italian guys and a lot of young guys and they've sort of, they picked up a few wins last year, but like they've almost been like, right, that's where you'll go.

You'll learn. It'll be difficult and then you'll almost maybe, I dunno if they'll move the guys across, but if they did that in Scotland, you would end up basically with just the Scotland team bar, a few guys that are playing abroad. Stay at Glasgow and then you could use the Edinburgh team as a development.

But I think they've probably got too many good players to really do that. So it's, they are sort of stuck in this, this tricky sort of way. But I think the best way Scotland to go around is almost try to promote guys to go and play elsewhere. So there's more opportunity for guys to come in. So the likes of then going and playing at Bath and making a million Yeah.[00:20:00] 

So you don't have to pay. Yes, they don't have control of when he plays and stuff, but if he's fit, he's gonna play. It gives an opportunity for someone else at Edinburgh or Glasgow to come in and play. Um, and they had Duhan van der Merwe went down to Worcester and then when they brought him back, I thought, that's just a lot of money that you're paying Yeah.

For someone to come back. That's gonna play for Scotland regardless. And there's a, could be a young winger at Edinburgh that's got the pathway there. So, um, it's a real tricky one to get right. And there's people obviously a bit more. Dawn of how it all works for me. But that is something that I would promote guys to, you know, come through the ranks at Glasgow and Edinburgh and to sort of, um, seasoned profess uh, seasoned internationals.

They've got that sort of ability. Then let them go and make them money elsewhere and then they can bring other guys. Well, 

Carl: obviously while France are throwing the money around in their leagues as well, they're, they've basically got four pro divisions over there, aren't they? So you, they're, [00:21:00] they've clearly got something right there.

And as you said, like if you can bring more players through to be developed and, and those players are still available for the international sale, I don't see the need to keep 'em like I get Yeah, it's nice to have 'em playing in your own teams and like the, the attachment to fans, but you can't bankrupt a league for the sake of, or a couple of teams just to.

Keep players. It is like the Welsh have struggled, obviously they've done the, the, the 60 cap rule. As soon as you've hit 60 caps you can go and play abroad. Which, which is fine. But England, England have got a plethora of players to pull on. Like you've got Jack Willis absolutely, absolutely. Tearing up the French leagues, winning titles upon titles.

And he obviously, because he is there, he is not getting called back. But then you've got the Curry brothers who've got, yeah, we've got plenty of options to back that up. Whereas like as you said, like Italy, um, and obviously Wales and Scotland, they've got to branch out a little [00:22:00] bit more. 'cause at least even Ireland have got four competitive provinces really like Ulster Flit and choose whether they're competitive sometimes.

And obviously Connacht have a good season, bad season, but Munster and Leinster have got such a depth of squad.. Casually go and get Rieko Ioane on. And like the Jordie, the bar, the Barrett Brothers like Yeah, they've clearly got, they've clearly got something right over there. They, so yeah, there's plenty to learn.

Yeah. It's, 

Scott Steele: it's, it's a real tricky one to get. Right. And I think in, like you say, in England, you've got such a pool of players to pick from, but you've also got, that you've got good national leagues at Yeah. National one, national two championship. There is somewhere for young players to go and a lot of them aren't gonna go straight into the premier ship.

And so it's that sort of in between where Scotland, we, we don't have that. I, I don't know what the Welsh Premiership in terms of the club's game, there's like, I know it used to be pretty strong. Um, in [00:23:00] Ireland, I know that their club game pretty strong as well. So, but in Scotland, the, the drop off between.

Playing at top club level and then going into professional. It's, it's too, too much. 

Carl: That's been, like, I was speaking to, I've had a few Irish lads on, I was, uh, I was in Lisbon at the weekend. I was chatting to a few of them. It's all amateur though, below. And there's like, you might get called up as a bad boy for a little bit to go into a length to camp, but there's no clear path there.

Eva, um, really good top quality level players, but no par in a lot of the Welsh lads are anything below the, the regions there, there's no connection between the regions and the pla the, the amateur teams any longer either. So it's like you, you're lost there and then when you've got the WRU spending 60 grand a year on daffodils or whatever it was when it come out the other day, and then now they've gone and bought Cardiff Blues to try and save them, but now we're gonna cut two other, it's just, I think a lot of it as we, we keep tapping on Yeah.

Is, it's at the top that's broken. It's the [00:24:00] bit underneath. We can't figure out, so. Um, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's difficult. Obviously, we talk just before you come on as well, uh, you, uh, you're still playing the game. You, you went to your local club. Um, how's, how's club rugby going for you over there? Um, 

Scott Steele: well, yeah, so it's quite a strange one.

So I had a job sorted out in Glasgow. Yeah, I live in Edinburgh. So when I finished I had a job sorted out in Glasgow in recruitment. So, uh, I got sort of signed up there and one of my mates said, oh, you should maybe come down and maybe do some coaching or play if you fancy it. And I thought, yeah, okay.

Went down. And the job that I was in then isn't the job I'm in now. So I, I changed jobs and moved back through Edinburgh, but I'd already sort of settled into that club, uh, Glasgow Hawks. Um, and they were, there was a restructuring of the leagues, um, but they were trying to cement a place in the top flight 'cause.

They were basically cutting. Three got relegated rather than one going down and one coming up. So it was an important [00:25:00] year for the clubs to try and stay in this league 'cause to get back up next year with guitar. Um, so I went there and I didn't really know how many games I'd play or how my heck was gonna feel and um, I just really liked the idea of going to play club rugby 'cause I missed out on that sort of, uh, going down the Lester and, and doing um, post stuff.

So I went and did it and absolutely loved it. Boys were great. Um, got loads of chat whilst I was playing guys off the knew that used to play pro and um, gave me special treatment and all that kind of stuff and I absolutely loved it. Um, we weren't sort of touted to be one of the better teams in the league.

Staying up would've been, would've been good for us. And, um, ended up playing I think 16, yeah, 16 games last year. Um, and then. We stayed up, uh, on the last, last day of the season as well. So that was, that was a good relief and not a good buzz. So, uh, just started the preseason. Now I've sort of stepped up to be a player, [00:26:00] player coach, so I'm gonna help the backs do sort of assistant coach stuff there.

Um, so it's a real good setup. They've gotten a few more guys that have sort of dropped outta the academy system at Glasgow. So, um, it's just been getting into that and I've, I've absolutely loved it. I've loved how, um, much these boys love it, even though obviously they're not getting paid, um, how much they, how passionate they are.

Uh, I love how sort of times it's not the best drug be in the world, but it's just whatever, whatever you have to do to win. Like the pitches obviously can be an absolute shamble at times. Uh, weather conditions. Um. The referee ends. Yeah, I imagine. Yeah. Drop as well. Appreciate. It's not the best. Um, so that's been quite hard to, to bite my tongue, um, at times.

But, uh, no, it's been, it's been great to get into that and to play. And I've, I've found terms of talking about transition, going down and training [00:27:00] and doing exercise when there's 30, 40 other lads in you're training stuff. Yeah. It's so much easier than try to motivate yourself to go out and do a run or go to the, don't mind going to the gym by himself, but actually doing stuff that's, you know, 

Carl: yeah.

Scott Steele: It's just boring. I find just going out and doing a 5K or try to do something like that, whereas if you're in a game and it's competitive, if you're running around like you're, you're doing it without, that's 

Carl: So how have you found the transition out of pro sports? Like, there must have been a time when you co, you knew, you retired in your head, you'd then announced it to everyone.

How did, how did that transit, was it fairly easy 'cause you'd already come to terms with it, or were you still, when it actually happened, sort of stood there? Shit, what do I do now? How does, how did that sort of work out for you? 

Scott Steele: Uh, it was when I announced that I'd already got the job lined up. So I'd had the job lined up maybe six months before, um, in a recruitment company.

So I had that lined up. So that made it easier [00:28:00] in terms of that. Um, a few other things, more circumstances. Uh, I was single. I didn't have any, I didn't have a wife didn't have kids. I didn't have that financial pressure. I didn't have, uh, I've not bought a place yet, so I've just had, I didn't have a, a mortgage that I needed to make a certain amount of money to sort of cover that.

So I think a lot of the stresses that guys go through is, I need a job and it needs to earn me this much to be able to cover this and this and this. Um, so that was one of the things that I didn't find that difficult. Uh, the thing that I found really hard was getting into a routine or knowing what job I go into is this.

Yeah. It's the right thing for me. Like I, I've never heard that before. I was playing pro rugby. I loved it. Everyone told me how lucky I was to be in a pro rugby player. I would give my, I would give my arm to be, to play one game of pro rugby and all this sort of stuff. And you've got the, [00:29:00] the best job in the world and a lot of time when you're in it.

And yeah, hard to realize that. But stepping away now, I'm like, Christ, that, yeah, I did. I loved the dream. It was, it was great. I loved it. Um, so then coming away from that and being like, is what I'm doing now the right thing for me? Is it, where's the progression in it? Like all this sort of stuff. I asked myself questions I never asked before, and that's the thing that I really struggled with.

Um, I'd be like learning a new career in recruitment and I did it for. I think it was like six, six or seven weeks. And it was so much information to take on and trying to do. And one day I was just like, this is not for me. Yeah. I'm not really spending more time. Had a really honest chat with the boss and I just said this, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be.

It's a bit different. They were really good with me. Um, and I just, I literally think it wasn't a good job for me, but then I had to take a couple of months where I just networked and spoke to people and tried to think like, what, [00:30:00] that's something that I speak to now with kids in school and like, it's really hard to know to go in life where, why should I go down this route?

Why should I go to college or uni or why should I pick up a parade? And a lot of the time kids sort of, I'm gonna do this because my parents did this and that's basically what I was gonna do when I left school. It's just, you see that and you go, yeah, okay. That seems all right. That's, they've got a decent math lifestyle.

Um, so it's a really hard one to get right. But coming off the back of playing 13 years pro, that was a question that I never, I never, when I was playing, even when it was really like shy and I was injured and stuff wasn't going well, I never was like, I might go and have my nose. Nah. Like, that would never cross my mind.

And like no one else in rugby I don't think would really, would really think about that. Um, so it was, that was the first time where I go like, I, I don't have to do this job. Yeah. I'm not enjoying. But then it's knowing where the next opportunity is. So [00:31:00] that was something that I really, I really struggled with and it sort of caught me by surprise when I, I had the job sorted, I was like, right, I'm fine.

This will be alright. I'll do this. And I went and worked hard, gave it my best shot, and then I just thought, this isn't, I'm not listening anymore time doing this. And then it's that having too many options. Like I could, I couldn't go into anything. I could try to get into anything. I could go and study and I could work somewhere and I could do stuff.

So many options out there, why, how do I know which one that I go for is not just right for me or like the right option. That was the thing that I really struggled. 

Carl: Uh, do you think there's a lot of, there's enough education within the game as well, because a lot of, you see a lot of players that are now trying to create other jobs alongside what they do, as it as, as pros, they're setting up other businesses, et cetera.

Is that because they've been educated or they've just realized that rugby has a shelf life and they've been advised by the right people? Or do you think that, is there actually like a liaison at at clubs or at the [00:32:00] Scottish R-R-R-F-U sort of thing to support those players that think actually what is life after rugby?

Scott Steele: Um, I think in England with RPA, they've got a.

Person who it's all about, you know, career development after. And I think a lot of the guys that are setting up businesses, that's the best way to do it. As whilst you're playing, you can put as much time into it as you want. You can sort of get other people in to manage it if you want. Um, but also for that fact, like I said, that you can understand whilst you're playing, this is something that I can see myself doing long term.

It's you've sort of put that time and you go, this is, I like, I like doing this or I don't like doing this. Um, with the RPA and in England they would do a lot of work experience days. So you would go in, get insights, different industries, different areas and that was great. Um, so I went into Monday. Monday and it was, I went into, [00:33:00] um.

Went into Central and it was all about trading and sort of finance and stuff like that. And I went in there and I was like blown away by it, but I was like, this, this is not for me. And that's perfect. Like knowing that I don't have to waste any more time looking at that, that's like even going in, going, this is not for me.

Um, did other, other sort of bits and bobs of that, which is good in London 'cause obviously so many opportunities there. So that was great. Um, in Scotland not so great in terms of my experience with uh, sort of transition stuff. I think I had a conversation with someone at the club and it was, they were only allowed to work with companies that sponsored the club.

So if the club were making money off of it, they were able to work with 'em. So that really narrowed you down And I was like, I don't want to go and work with Yeah. A company or something like that, which was the opportunities. And I think in hindsight it would've been good 'cause. I said, oh, I'm looking to go into recruitment.

'cause I've had [00:34:00] this sort of chat with this company. I've had a few companies, I went in and did work experience for one of them. And I was asking guys at Edinburgh, have you got any links there? And they were like, no, we don't. But if I'd been able to do that sort of more long term, yeah, just a day, um, I probably would've found out then that it, it wasn't gonna go for me.

So I think that's something that in Scotland did definitely could resource better, is sort of making guys more aware that rugby's not gonna last forever. If you've only got two teams up here, um, that's gonna be a lot of players that don't quite make it. Um, and also especially in Glasgow, Edinburg, it's big enough cities that they can, they can sort of get out there and do stuff as well.

It's definitely, it's definitely an area they can 

Carl: No, well obviously it's, it, it's, it's another person they've probably gotta pay to put, make available as well. 

Scott Steele: Yeah. It's a, it's a funding thing. It's, um, yeah, yeah, it's a funding thing. Again, it comes down to money again. Obviously 

Carl: if those clubs that are sponsored, we're able to just use [00:35:00] some, a couple of credit here and there.

That might make it a little bit easier rather than, than that. But yeah, it's, uh, obviously as you said though, you were at London, Irish, one of many players that seemed to have fell in with that, uh, fell in love with that club. Like a lot of people, you always speak to players that played for him and they have such a massive adoration for that club.

And now that they're, they're back in the, in the realms of rugby. And obviously they sadly lost Eddie Jordan just before the, they're, they're actually re reborn. But what, what was it about that club that everyone seems to have fell in love with? Because. Everyone, everyone you speak to is just, they, they're so happy that I think Pair are even ca tearing up their contracts to go back there.

They're, everyone just loves it. 

Scott Steele: Uh, hard one to pick you up. Yeah. Your finger on. But first of all, the people away from the rugby side. So the guys that are involved were the chairman, [00:36:00] sort of their K McCarthy, uh, the guys that are around, like the groundsman staff, like the people in the office, all them, they were all so passionate about the club.

And that's the first thing that I realized going in. They were so passionate about it. And these could be people at other clubs that you go in and they just go and sit down. They don't speak to the players. They get on with a job. It's a normal nine to five for them, and they just leave where they, they were all really passionate about the club.

Um, when I went in, they had a real buy-in to who they were as their identity. It was a bit of a bizarre meeting that he sort of said that. There were a bunch of misfits. Like it was, it was Brian Smith was saying, it was like a bunch of misfits. Um, we're a bunch of Mong girls really, if we're being honest.

A lot of us have tried to be at other clubs and have not quite correct it. He's like, myself included as a coach. But this is us on way [00:37:00] to show everyone else that they were wrong. And we've got a point to prove, um, talk about the fight in Irish. Regardless if we wanna lose, no one's gonna have a game against us.

And they'll, uh, they'll come off the pitch thinking, uh, they'll put an easy game there. Um, that underdog sort of tag. It was, it was fast and I loved it and I bought into it straight away. And it was, it was because a lot of clubs, you go in and they either think that you go in and they're like, we're gonna, we're gonna finish top four.

We're gonna win this thing. And you're just like. In the league saying that, yeah, let's be realistic. Let's know who we are, what to that know what our strengths are. They were like, we've not particularly got the biggest pack because we can't pay, we can't afford to pay the, the highest paid props and second row and we can't really, um, get a squad together.

Let's gonna compete on that level. So let's try and move the ball as much as we can. Um, let's be as niggly as we can. Let's be as horrible to play against as we can. Um, [00:38:00] and go from there. So that was, that was the reason that I really bought into, um, and the way that they, because I had loads of different head coaches, but from the enough, like my experience didn't particularly change because of them other people that were around them.

Um, and even when we went the championship, the way they approached that could have been. Really difficult in terms of having internationals dropping down to playing the championship and all that sort of stuff. But it was, it was always a positive sort of like, right, we're here now, let's make the most of it.

We'll have a good time whilst we're doing it as well. Um, and it was just that sort of attitude of Right. We're never beaten, which I loved. 

Carl: Yes. It seemed to be like a family of, do you think that they, a proper rugby family is probably how the, the easiest way to describe it as well? Yeah. So we previously had Ollie, Ollie Curry on, um, who was, who was there at, yeah, at one time he sort of didn't quite get into [00:39:00] the squad because, uh, few issues.

Obviously he was quite vocal as well. He is actually funny enough, ended himself up in Scotland at the minute, but. 

Scott Steele: Yeah, I played, played ball. Yeah, he's a good, 

Carl: he's a good character, isn't he? And um, yeah, some of the stories he was telling me of, of the, the crack den he had to share with Joe Cokanasiga and the singer was, uh, was quite funny back in the, back in the day.

Yeah. So obviously you were there probably during some of their, their best times and probably some of their worst times. What was, what was probably your highlight when you were there? 

Scott Steele: It's a tough one 'cause you say like, winning the championship place shouldn't be a, a highlight for a club like London Irish 'cause they shouldn't be there in the first place.

But that relief of getting them back, obvious C great And it was off the back of having a season where it felt like preseason throughout the whole year, which might sound a bit strange, but everyone was playing. They would rotate the scrub all the time. So it was great in terms of morale. Young lads were getting game [00:40:00] time because they knew, uh.

They basically knew the first year we went down there like this is a real opportunity for us to bleed as many young guys as possible, um, to rotate the squad. Like guys like David Pace that have played two 300 games for them or whatever, top, oh Joe, these guys, like, they don't need to be playing for us every single week in the championship will be all right.

Resting them. And they all love the fact that they get told right, in two weeks time, you've gotta be caught. Perfect. Go away with the family, do what you want. Um, I had a rotation with the, the two other nines that it was, if you were on the bench for two games, you would start for two games and then you wouldn't play for two games.

And the three of us would just do that. And it was brilliant. You could plan what you were doing on your two weeks off. You knew that if you started one game and you didn't have a good game, no matter what, you're gonna start the next game, um, et cetera, et cetera. So it really took the pressure off. Um, and it was quite bizarre.

'cause usually it's right, you're all fighting [00:41:00] against each other for game time and competition. But they sort of knew the two guys were a bit older than me. Um, I wouldn't say there was much between us in terms of, I would've liked to thought that if it was an out and out starter, I would've been starting.

But the in realistic, like they wouldn't be in a massive drop either way. They would, they were both really good players. Um, one was an AIE that they brought over from the water towers and one Darren Allen and the Wela that had been the Irish for ages. So they were like really experienced. So, um, that was great the way they worked, that sort of thing.

Um, my first year when I went, my personal highlight was, so I moved from Leicester where I was. Basically team binge juice or just not playing, just always doing the reps for other guys. There's a lot of times at Lester they had such a big squad that I would be swapping in on the wing for the non-playing team.

'cause I couldn't even swap in at Scrum a game. I would literally be going around [00:42:00] begging lads like, do you wanna rest? Like, do you wanna rest? And we'll swap out. So like, that's like no good for your development. Uh, played a bit of alone at Leftborough, which was better? Well, I'd say better. It was, it was basically I was going to university and living the social life of the university, but not having to do any of the work.

So, um, it's great, great fun, but not, not great for my rugby, I suppose. Uh, but the year that I moved, I started for, uh, Irish in the Premiership, the first game of the season sort that kept my place and we went back to Leicester. We beat Lester Wellford Road and it was the first time in 11 years or something that Irish had been able to beat Lester Wellford Road because obviously they were, they were the dominant team for so long and won on finals all the year and stuff like that.

Irish were where competing at times. They had been, obviously they got to European rugby stuff before I got there. Um, we got to the top flight sort of stuff and gotta the finals. But, uh, yeah, to go back there, that was a real sort of like, [00:43:00] right, I've made the right decision here. Um, a bit of a yeah. Thing up to them for, uh, 'cause they, they wanted to keep me, but the way they went about it was, so basically I said, I want move to go to London.

I should play more, get more game time. I'm not gonna play here. And after that it was. I would always get chucked in to catch the balls off the line outs in the forward sessions. Usually they would rotate it every week, but I'd be like, oh, you London Island. Come over here, catch the balls, all this kind of stuff.

I'd be going to get kit out the kit room and they'd be like, yo, you won't be getting that at London Island. You've got no money. They've got this and all that kind of stuff. When I was just filming, I'm my 21-year-old, I'm not playing, it's not as if I'm like one of the biggest players and I'm making this move and it's a big thing.

I was just like, eh. But I suppose they would just say it's a bit a bit of fun, a bit of banter, but when it was going on for like three or four months, I was like, cannot [00:44:00] wait to get outta here now. Say please get me out. So. That was, that was great to go there and start against them and beat them. It was, it was very satisfying, shaking some of the coaches' hands and the guy's hands that were, were giving me before.

Carl: Yeah. Sounds sounds like a perfect revenge that Oh, oh yeah. We had Mario Pichardie on the other day as well, the Spain captain, and he was at, uh, Loughborough. Um, yeah. And he was originally at wasps and he highlighted how bad the treatment of potentially a lot of youth players are in, um, in English clubs.

They're used as cannon fodder, uh, bag boys sent on loan, then back the next day just to be bag, uh, bag boys again. Do you think that's from your experience as well, pretty, pretty rife in certain clubs? 

Scott Steele: Uh, I would say in my experience it was at Leicester particularly. Yeah. It was, it was pretty bad. Um, I think also, not to just point out Leicester, but back then it would've been maybe 10, well, 13 years ago it would've been different, I think player.

[00:45:00] Welfare's a bit better, a bit more treated now than it, than it is then. So I think it would've been happening across the board. But I remember playing a league games on a Monday night play 70, 60, 80 minutes. Some guys, especially the forwards, they would play a full game on the Monday and then be turning up to a Tuesday where they would train for the full day and be doing full malls and live tackle.

And the guys that have played the night before would be literally sausage like bag there and they'd be over the top of it and guys would just be coming out and clearing the out and they're going, gee, a game last night, and then it's doing this. And then you'd get the day off on the Wednesday and then you would get your be on like loan or whatever on the Thursday and the management of guys minutes and where they were, they were getting pulled from all different directions.

And it was, yeah, it was, it was pretty full on, um, in terms of that. But. To be honest, I think even the first team players, the way that they're, they were managed [00:46:00] back then would've been different as well. But it was an attitude of you just get on with it. If you don't hack, if you don't like it, you can, you can go elsewhere, you can't hack it sort of thing.

Um, but I do think even being, uh, down at Quinn and seeing how they work with managing lone players and the younger lads is a lot better than, than what I remember it was, uh, back in the day. But, um, it's a difficult one to get right because clubs that are competing, the first team need to opposition to train against, but them guys also need game time.

So you can't train against nobody. So it's where do you get these numbers from and how do you manage that, which is, I understand why they did it. It's not, they just did it for the sake of it. Um, but it's something that you, you need to be a bit more smart about. But, uh, I think a lot of adv ends. Yeah, off rugby really.

It's, um, especially nowadays, I can imagine young guys going like, [00:47:00] I don't have to do this. I can go and drop down the leagues, do it parttime and get a job and not have to worry about my body or, um, especially with fashions and stuff like that, if you've had a couple of bad head knocks and you got thrown into that situation, a lot more lads these days would be like, I'm not that to you later, not putting my body on my line.

So, um, yeah, it's definitely something that has improved. But yeah, back, back in the day it was, it was pretty full on. 

Carl: Yeah. And you, you wonder how many players got lost just because they were sick of being a bag boy as well. And it's ho as you said, hopefully it's, it's changing. But Mario was, he was at Wasps, what, he's only 24 now, so he was at wasps maybe six, seven years ago.

So I've, I've, I think they're probably, uh, I. There's probably still a little bit of it, but hopefully it's been phased out a lot more. 'cause obviously there's, there's a few more games available as well to, to get those lads bedded in at the clubs rather than having to constantly go out on [00:48:00] loan and come back.

So, yeah. Um, obviously your, uh, your Instagram photograph is ob I'm pretty sure, is that you holding the cow cutter cup. How was, uh, how, yeah, how was the, how was, how was the call up? How did, how, when you first got the, the Scottish call up, how, how did that emotionally feel? And then to, as a Scotsman, to be, to lifting the cow cutter cup as well.

That must, that must be a pinnacle of being a, a Scottish player. Yeah. 

Scott Steele: Yeah, that is exactly right. Um, that's the stuff that you, you dream of when you're mocking about and you're doing, you know. It through the post. So you drop gold when you're younger. You're saying this is, this is to beat England. That's just the way, it's no offense to English people, but that's just the way it's being Scottish.

Um, but uh, no. So the first of all, the call up was surreal in the terms of I went from getting released to Irish, [00:49:00] basically three months living back home during COVID. Thinking, getting a contract anywhere is not looking likely here. 'cause Rugby's knackered at the, well, the world's knackered at the minute.

Like COVID iss really bad. People obviously are losing family members, all this sort of stuff. So I don't think getting a news from half signings on anyone's prior a minute, nevermind when they can start training, when, when the game, like what's it gonna look like as rugby, like to survive this. A lot of teams struggled financially and needed bailouts from government, uh, loans and stuff.

So that was a stressful time. And then go to Quinn's. They would play Saturday, Wednesday, Sunday because they needed to finish the games that they canceled the season before. Yeah. So it was a real intense block of games. So I knew that I was gonna play, I was gonna get a chance. So it was myself, Danny Care, and Martín Landajo, um, Argentinian nine.

So I was like pretty [00:50:00] hard competition, but they're gonna have to rotate them guys were older than me, so I thought that might be almost head in terms of get a bit more minutes. So I went in there, luckily got an opportunity and I outta the nine games that we played in that short block, I played seven and I played really well.

Um, mainly about the fact that I, I'd lost like 10 kgs of like pure fat during that couple of months where I was back home training. I just really, the realization on my rugby career being over, I was like, you've sort of the mic a bit here and I was always a bit heavier. Um, my diet wasn't particularly good.

Liked going out for PIN after games, um, wasn't the best in the gym. So that sort of realization, right, if I do get a contract somewhere, I'm gonna be in really good nick and I'm gonna be good to go because I'm gonna need to be good to go. So I did that and that was, that was great. So rugby was a lot easier for me in terms of getting around the pitch support play, managed to score, I think scored five, [00:51:00] a thick prize and then seven games and they were all just from running support lines and yeah, being there, um, and obviously playing in a team that was at that time was better than Irish and also were playing a style of rugby where it was off a lot more phone and offloading and stuff like that.

And basically with better players that we're gonna make line breaks and I can basically get ties off the back of them. So. I did that, but I was, I was living outta bags because I'd put all the stuff into storage. I didn't know where was gonna be in the world, nevermind in England or whatever. And it was a nightmare.

So I moved all my stuff outta storage. I was living in Twick, moved it all out in storage. And then I ended up signing for Quinn's. And I was like, I just kept the same flat and everything, stay in the same place. I would've saved myself a bit of money. So I had to get all my stuff outta storage, moved into a different place in Twickingham and I'm still waiting for my bed and stuff.

So I had a mattress there and I was literally sitting on my mattress in my room and the phone rings and it's Gregor Town's end. And I was like, right. And I'd had a lot of these [00:52:00] conversations early on in my career when I was 21, 22. And it would always, you're in contention, you're doing well. Keep working on this, do that.

And I would always get the second, second phone call you've just lost out, unfortunately. And a bit. Uh, but then they probably stopped happen when I was about 23, 24 when I. We'd moved into the championship and we were doing a bit like that and I wasn't playing as, as much as well, but then to get the second phone call, I was like, it's gonna do the same thing.

And I, I knew I was just sitting there like, it's gonna be the same. Like I'm delighted to say that, you know, you're gonna be involved for the, the autumn. We've got one game for the six Nations to finish against Wales and then the autumn after it. And I was like, amazing. Like load of hard work. You've done the rail friends, it's been a good move for you.

Can't wait to get you in the camp or whatever. And I sat there and I was like, couldn't believe it. But then also I was like, okay, I've got to go do this now. Like I've got to go in international camp's. That gonna be like, the standard's gonna be a lot higher. I'm well good enough for that. All the [00:53:00] sort of questions that are gonna pop up.

So, um, it was, it was really good that I knew a lot of the guys already through age groups or playing against them. Scotland's a like small sort of nation in terms of, especially in rugby, it's a really small pool of people. Like you'll know friends or Friends, yeah. People. So, um, going into camp wasn't as intimidating in that, that sense, but actual, that intensity of training stuff was next level.

It was all indoor on a 4G uh, complex, which is the orum, which is, uh, head at what university. It's a really cool setup, but it just meant that everything was too quick. And luckily I was, and I was good to go, but it was, yeah, it was, it was next level. To think back, if I did got called up when I was 23 or whatever, and I was a po little minor, I would, I would not have lasted, I would've struggled big time.

So, um, yeah, to go into camp, that was class. And then, yeah, the cal cutter cup was by far my highlight of my career coming on, I remember last [00:54:00] 15 minutes or 20 minutes or so, and the team manager turns around him, says it's like. Still they get warm and I'm also sitting there like, tight, are you sure? Like, are you sure about this?

And then once you get into it, it was, it was good and played well and it was just closed out the game 'cause we were winning. It was a lot of box. Yeah. Sort of management and tackling, stuff like that. But that, that relief of, of doing that and just, it was more just the realization, like my last couple of months have been, yeah, mental, like all over the place.

Like thinking, am I gonna even have a job in rugby to lifting the calcu cup where I thought there was no chance I'll be ever playing for Scotland at that stage when I was 27 I was like, yeah, this, it was just, I had so much to deal with and I remember being on the, we got a chartered plane, um, back and obviously it was, it was still COVID so there's like no one around and stuff like that.

And we were just on this plane and Finn Russell's got like the boombox on one shoulder and he's like going down the aisle with all the drinks and stuff. He's basically poured [00:55:00] out all the drinks and over the best time ever. And I was just sitting there, I was like. Rugby career tomorrow. I'd be happy. I'd be happy.

That's what I started thinking. I was like, I'd be happy because this is, this is just, I've never thought this was happening. So that was pretty cool. But then it's still quick. It's like, come Monday, Tuesday, you're back in. That's post sport. It's like you're back in, there's a new challenge that's done. It was great while it lasted, but we've got this game coming up, this game coming up.

So, um, I think that's, it's a good thing and a bad thing about it, it's quite nice once they're finish now to look back on them sort of moments and, and really enjoy them. But at the time it's, you enjoy them for a short period and then it's like, right, well if you turn up on Monday, you have a crap session, you might not get picked to the weekend and it can change so quickly.

So that's how it keeps you on, on your tools. But yeah, that was definitely the high. I was gonna say that must 

Carl: have made the decision to retire a little bit easier knowing that you'd, that you'd managed to do that in a, in a Scotland shirt. Couple of questions just to finish off. Um, the, who is the best play you've ever got to play rugby [00:56:00] with?

Scott Steele: Um.

In terms of individual like brilliance, I would say like watching and training and in games it would be very tight between Finn Russell and Marcus Smith for different reasons. Um, because Marcus running game and ability to just sort of, if everyone else isn't doing that well, playing that well, he can just get the bomber right.

I doing it myself and just go and watching him in training. It's a joke, like you see it all the same games when he, he gets the ball in dances, round chips, it over goes through and all that kind of stuff. But like on training, if he doesn't do one of them a training session, you'll go my eyes a bit off.

Like these moments of like pure magic and just, it's, it's usually if you get like a back against a forward and they'll do a goose step and make [00:57:00] 'em look silly. But anyone in that team. We'd be op opposite Marcus and he'd be like shitting themselves, like, oh God, he's gonna do me here. Like, and you don't know which way he is gonna go.

And he is so quick and elusive and yeah. So in terms of that him then, in terms of his skills, his decision making, how smart he is? Um, it was actually really interesting seeing him during camp. He would do absolutely nothing in the gym. Yeah. Which wouldn't surprise you. Like walk around, not us. Didn't even, he'd do a bit of rehab stuff that like, that was the bare minimum that the sort of s and g coaches would make him do.

Like, at least do this bit. You can pack off all the rest. He wouldn't do that. He'd come up to train him with like, his Lacey's undone and he would just, it's like, not about the skill and execution, it's, but like he would dummy, throw like a ball over the top. So then the winger sort of like holds off to go wide.

Then he would like dummy to kick it in behind winger drops back, and then he'd pull it across. [00:58:00] And like the wingers, I remember whose do hands literally like up forward, back down to a stage where like fell over on the floor and fins there. Like, I've got you on a, I put you on a string mate, I've got you on a string, I'm just playing with you.

And he would do that to loads of guys, um, like know Luke stuff as well. But the really interesting bit was going into the team room and he'd always be sat down at a laptop and I sort of sat there and you could sort of get, not ripped apart, but if I sat down, I, I just was like, right then tell me what you're looking at.

I don't care how like nausea or how geeky it sounds, I wanna know what you're looking at when you're looking here. And he was like, right, like taking the piss. I'll show you, I'll show you what exactly, I'll show you how the magic happens and all this sort of stuff. So he sits me down and he's like looking, we're playing against France and last the six nations he was watching, um.

Damian Yeah. Yeah. Was it per the winger? Big lad. So he's on the left and he's like, every time that ball [00:59:00] goes to the 12 or the, the certain move, every time it goes there, he takes at least two steps tighter every time. Regardless if the ball goes out the back or it goes short, he takes two steps tighter.

And I was like, okay, what that means, like that means that I know that if I throw that ball three meters outside of him, that he's not, he's not gonna get to that space and our wing's gonna be on it and go. So he is like, I don't even have to look because I know he does it. He does it every single time I've looked and we're talking two meters, like it's not a lot, but it just, his body angle of going from here to there, he is like, I can just put the ball in that space.

I can kick it, I can throw it. Doesn't matter. I think you have to look in the game. It's like literally like second or third time I've had the ball. Off the line, it gets hit, blah blah that. And he gets a ball and he's got so much pressure on him and he just like grabs it, throws it without even looking straight over the top and we make a line break down there.

Wow. And I was like, that's the sort of stuff that people don't understand. Like he's sat there and looked at that and looked through games and [01:00:00] footage and knowing that sort of stuff and analyzing what the backfield do and what certain guys do. He does all that stuff and people would be like, oh, he's just thrown that because he's a bit loose and he is thinking, ah, whatever.

I don't care. But he's done it because of he's looked and he's done the research. So that was pretty, pretty interesting. Pretty cool to sort of see it ma. It makes you appreciate him a lot more sort of thinking, right? Yeah. Actually puts in the work and he's really, his rugby IQ is so smart that he can do these things that you think are a bit, just loosen off the cuff.

But it's not, he's thought about that. He knows that. Wow, 

Carl: that's, that must be just madness. Seeing it in telling you what on the laptop and then just executing it. 'cause he, he knew it was gonna happen as well. 

Scott Steele: And I was there like to have the, the minerals to do that and just go for it.

Carl: Yeah. There's a rea there's a reason. 

Scott Steele: Get into the game. Do the basics. 

Carl: That's why there's a reason you're on a million pound or whatever it is. Down at Bath and uh, [01:01:00] yeah. Um, exactly. And then the last one, who's, who's a player that should have gone on to make it, but never, never quite did that. You played with, 

Scott Steele: um, there was a guy that I played with, so I played with him at EY Sense, that's my local team.

So I played with him at age groups, played with him under seventeens, eighteens and twenties Scotland. He was captain of the under eighteens and I think he, he wasn't captain the twenties, but he was, he played 13, his name was Chris Auld, uh, played a bit at, um, yeah, MP Darlington Morning Park for a bit.

Played for them, played at Carlisle. So he still played a decent level when he played at Gala up here, when they were good. Um. So he still played at a decent enough level, but he at age group was unbelievable in terms of strong, quick an attack, but his best attribute was defending as a 13 Go smart, knew exactly what to do, was unbelievable at chopping people and getting on the ball.

And Jacqueline, um, and he went [01:02:00] into the Burg setup, so he sort of had the opportunity, uh, but he just got caught in this phase of, like you say, go well, loved going out, uh, moved to Edinburgh, loved going out on the, on the pest. He would be at University and Edinburgh. And what he would do, as he would tell Edinburgh that he was at university and would tell University that was at Edinburgh.

So we would just end up having like three or four days off during the week and we'd just end up going out all the time. And he was a good looking lad as well. So I'm sure he would've got a lot of attention off the ladies when he was out and about doing his things. He was one of them that I, I, I've not caught up with him in a long time, but it would actually be interesting to hear, you know, how he would, he would look back on that and think about it.

Some guys that I've played with would be like, I just, yeah, that's what I did and I loved it. I've got no regrets. Other guys might be like, yeah, probably should have maybe had that opportunity. But, um, nah. He was one that everyone, he was the best player at our age groups growing up by a mile. And we had [01:03:00] a lot of good guys.

We had like, like Johnny Gray, um, Mark Bennett that played, uh, Adam, uh, Jamie Farmdale. Yeah. That play on sevens and stuff like that. Tommy, Tommy Allen. Yeah. Italian term, like we had loads of guys that were really good and you could probably ask any of them guys what was preferred, like at that age move the right yard was the best by mouth.

Carl: Uh, on that note, I think that's obviously probably the best way to end a typical rugby player that probably didn't quite make it 'cause they've been on the piss instead. So, uh, yeah. Scott, I really appreciate your time mate, and it's, uh, it's great to chat rugby and uh, I, I'm really glad I've managed to get your story out there as well, obviously from, uh, from ending the ending your, your rugby career.

No, 

Scott Steele: I really appreciate it. Great to chat with you. Um, really enjoyed it. Um, hope it, hope it wasn't too boring for the people that do tune in and listen to it, but, uh, no, it's been really good. And yeah, hopefully for, for guys as well that [01:04:00] are, um, transitioning or thinking about transitioning, um, I'd, I'd like to say that if they, if they wanna get in touch, um, it's great to have a conversation.

My experience might not be the same as theirs. I'm still pretty fresh out of it. It's only a couple of years, but I think it is really helpful just to, to sort of chat it through, um, sort of get a heads up. Yeah. Get a heads up about what things that I've went through, what things that other guys have went through.

And I think that's the good thing about rugby. We talked about values earlier. There's been loads of people that are, are willing to have a chat and help out and I think the more people that do that, the easier, that transition piece will hopefully be for guys coming out the game 

Carl: for anyone else that wants to keep abreast of everything that we do on rugby, TTL, more chats like this are, are, are bound to come in.

Uh, just obviously like follow, subscribe to all the channels we've got 'cause we've got plenty more to come and, uh, obviously share the love of, of Scott sharing his time with us as well. So thank you and [01:05:00] goodbye.