Rugby TTL - Series 2 - Episode 10 - Mario Pichardie Spain Rugby

In-Depth Interview with Mario Pichardiei: Spanish Rugby's Rising Star

Welcome to another episode of Rugby through the League's podcast! In this special in-person episode, we sit down with Mario Pichardie, a prominent figure in Spanish rugby. We delve into Mario's experiences, including his new journey with a French club, the dynamics of Spanish players in France, and the development of rugby in Spain. From his initial days at Wasps, his influential role in the Spain national team, to his aspirations for the future, Mario shares it all. We also discuss the potential for Spain hosting the 2035 Rugby World Cup and the current state of rugby development in the country. Tune in for an insightful conversation with a passionate rugby talent who's making waves in the sport!

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:33 Mario Pichardie's New Club in France
01:10 Challenges and Opportunities in French Rugby
03:54 Mario's Rugby Journey and Education
05:59 Spanish Rugby Development and Challenges
09:26 Spain's Rugby World Cup Aspirations
16:36 The Future of Rugby in Spain
20:31 Challenges of Hosting Rugby Tournaments in Spain
21:01 The Rugby Culture in Spain and Stadium Attendance
21:21 Travel and Logistics for Rugby Tournaments in Spain
21:43 Rugby in Bilbao and Catalonia
22:36 Filling Stadiums and Pre-Game Festivities
23:29 Personal Stories: Playing Rugby in France
23:56 Dreams of Playing with Family
25:44 The Impact of Brexit on Rugby Careers
26:18 Pathways to Professional Rugby
26:55 Goals for the Rugby Europe Championships
28:15 Reflecting on Past Matches and Performances
30:53 The Importance of Game Time and Training
34:38 Future Aspirations and Career Plans
37:16 Memorable Players and Influences
39:09 Concluding Thoughts and Future Plans

Transcript

Carl: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of Rugby through the League's podcast This week, as you can see, we're actually for the first time in person with, uh, with one of our guests, Mario Pichardie Really appreciate your time, mate, and thanks for inviting me down to. The, Alicante the Spain training camp before, uh, the America 

Mario Pichardie: Tour.

Nah, thanks very much very good for you to come. I think, uh, it is very good. You can come here and be, give visibility to Spanish rugby ah, and 

Carl: obviously what, 30 odd degrees today mate. Yeah. So we try to sneak outside, but if you hear any planes flying over, it's probably everyone trying to get photo of Mario and, uh.

Seeing as he is now off to France. He got a new, uh, new club mate. 

Mario Pichardie: Yeah. Very excited. It's a Nationale 1 . Yeah. So it's like used to be a historic club and they went down a couple of years ago. Yeah. Uh, do financial reason and now they're just trying to rebuild that team's trying to promote back to Pro D2

So I'm quite excited 

x 

Mario Pichardie: to. So you go there to, then you venture into, into French, French 

Carl: soil. You, you're now probably one of quite a [00:01:00] few Spanish players that are playing over in France that have all sort of dotted across their, the border. And there's a lot of other players within Rugby Europe as well that have all sort of dotted across there.

What's, what's the big draw to playing in France? Is it because they're sort of selling a bit of a dream to you of what, how these clubs want to go? Or is it just. The natural progression you feel at the minute? 

Mario Pichardie: I think. I think so. I played this year in Spain. 

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: And I felt there was, I was already at the ceiling.

There's nothing more Yeah. To, to, to what I am and I'm still, uh, quite young. I see myself quite young still. I'm just made 24. I'm 35 mate. Oh God. I'm feeling it now. Yeah. So I think go. Going to France economically. Yeah. Is is the strongest league in, in the world. Yeah. That's, it doesn't matter if you go down the leagues, it's still, still, uh, very good financial so you can feel that you're a professional player.

And also, um, Joe, I, I played for the dream that I want to play Pro D2. I think I I've got the level on the Yeah. And the quality to be, a Pro D2 is just a time of [00:02:00] luck, if, uh, because I'm not JIFF it's time of, time of luck if I want to pick me up. 

Carl: Yeah. 'cause obviously the Pro D2 at the minute is. Oh, it's, I've been watching, I watched the playoffs recently, and, uh, the access match.

It's just a phenomenal standard. It is for the players that are being drawn across. They're obviously Courtney Laws, Brive, struggling to even get into the, into the final after getting caught out by Montauban. And then obviously Grenoble are now gonna still be down. So obviously there's a few players that have.

Been signed on the pretense that they were going into the, the top 14. And so it's gonna be a really competitive league. So because you are joining a club that's tier, basically div three over there, aren't you? Yeah. So they've managed to sign a good few players as well. It looks like they've got a big project going.

Mario Pichardie: Yeah. So they, they, they just signed 18, 18 players from my club this year. Wow. So the, the process is trying to get the top, the top four. Yeah. Uh, for the, to play the uh, uh, because it finished ninth this year. They finish ninth. Yeah. Uh, so they kick out 16 players, something like that. Just signed [00:03:00] 18 new and their objective is to try to promote it in the next two years.

If we can make it next year, 

Carl: yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: Even better. But I'm quite excited, think's a good project and especially I think it is gonna improve myself and my, my physicality. I think if I go there, feel, I felt more ready when we are facing Tonga and Fiji in November. Yeah. I think that will fit myself more confident to try to go and give a good performance against those type of countries.

Because there's rumors 

Carl: England, they're gonna be potentially playing England A Yeah. Uh, against Spain as well in November. Have you sort of heard any more about that? Is that happening? Is it just not announced or, uh, I'm not sure. I'm not 

Mario Pichardie: sure. I'm not sure about I. In a personal way. I would, I would love to.

That'd be a great game. 'cause I've got, I've got plenty of friends that are from my AASE, days, in England. Yeah. , they're in England Set up And I would love to manage to play games against them, with people that I left since I was, uh, 17 years old. So those that don't 

Carl: know as well, you were at wasps before, they weren't wasps and stuff.

Yeah, exactly. Because [00:04:00] obviously that was your first big contract that you've become part of their what? What was it? Their training academies? No. And then that all kind of just fell apart. That must have been thought shit. What, what am I gonna do now? 

Mario Pichardie: So I, I always, like, I've been taught at home. Yeah. Uh, you're now gonna be become millionaire from rugby.

Yeah. So you always have to do something on the side. Yeah. So I was lucky enough, uh, I finished, I did my levels in England, uh, pickup at worse. And then. I took the decision to do international business at Loughborough University. Nice. So when everything went down, I was lucky enough, I still, I still have something in England to work on.

Yeah. So I set myself the goal to finish my degree and then see where the road goes. Yeah. I got to a point I was quite fed up of, of English professional rugby. I think England's. English, English set is not doing a good job with the youngsters. Right. Uh, if you speak to anyone that is from the age of 18 to 22, they hate it because they train every day with the first team.

Then they go on, they have to drive an hour away to go on loan. [00:05:00] Yeah. Then you have to be back the next day with less, with, uh, Leicester or Northampton, something like that. Yeah. So at the end of the day. Like when your at Wasps setup The only thing you wanna do is play for, for Wasps - with a Wasps badge. Yeah. And like they’re doing at Toulouse — my brother that plays week and week out with Toulouse Under-23s

Yeah. Think that brings something that you feel part of the club. Yeah. Do you only, do you feel like you, just like a bag, they used you for training Canon fodder. Exactly. 

Carl: So you obviously also went on loan. You went to Nottingham and Cov. I went. I 

Mario Pichardie: went Coventry Rams. In Loughborough. Yeah. And then the Stockbridge for a bit.

Okay. Uh, but yeah, I played two games in, in Champ with When the year that wasps went down Yeah. It, it was fun, but I think it's, it's very physical that when I was, I was too young there. You didn't do too bad at Loughborough though, did you? No, I was, I was, we did very well, pretty well. Few years there, I think.

They were one of the golden years of, of Loughborough, finished with the league titles on a, on a cup title. So pretty happy, 

Carl: pretty solid. And [00:06:00] then obviously you, you finished uni and then come back to play for Al Vender. Yeah. So is that your team originally as you exactly grew up? División de Honor. Yeah. It's kind of a weird patch in it.

They're trying to sign players and bring it, like obviously I, I, we we're not too far from Lavere. Now at the minute here, they're trying to sign good players around, but there's probably must be a ceiling within that league of players that want to stay at the minute. Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: I think the, the level, the level's not there.

I used to be a couple of years ago, I think. Uh, but I think it's an investment from the Spanish Federation. Yeah. They're trying to 'cause back in the day. Clubs will sign like New Zealand players, Fijian players. Yeah. And so at the end of the day, you will not develop the No. There was a massive cut between players that were in France.

Yeah. And play and players from Spain because they didn't have no much game time or something like that. Yeah. So Spain now put like a lot of restriction to try and for, uh, to try and make teams develop a Spanish player. Yeah. So I feel the way, I feel like the level. [00:07:00] It's not as higher it used to be, but the Spanish player level is increasing, which is the whole point as well.

Carl: 'cause I was speaking to Adam McBurney, he was on the pod the other day and he's moved from Belfast. He was at Ster and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And he's gone over to Romania. And Romania have got a similar setup where they have to have a certain amount of Romanian. Yeah. Made players, um, to, to develop as well.

Spain have obviously tried to incorporate that. But below that, division D honor division on D on a B is, is a massive, still, it's a massive gap in it. 

Mario Pichardie: Uh, I, I think, I think everything is a, it's a process. It's a process. Yeah. And now, um, now Spain is trying to do like 30 centralized contracted players. Okay.

Yeah. So the di is, uh, what I have from the federation is hopefully get the next three, four to four years. Yeah. Be like the black lions. Yeah. Yeah. Where they managed to play the A PRC. Pcr a PCR R So that's 

Carl: gonna be linked back to 

Mario Pichardie: the Iberians Exactly, yeah. Nice. Okay, so basically there's 30 contracted players are like, you do your [00:08:00] a variance training, then you always have to be on camp with Spain.

Yeah. So you, you secure like 30 players that just, they're like fulltime in Spain on the level. I will increase. Nice. So when all the French player come back 

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: The Spanish, the Spanish player's gonna be higher. Yeah. 'cause you can't depend, we can't depend on, uh, Joel Merkler or Jon Zabala to win a game in, in Correct.

In Australia. Yeah. I think the whole team has to strike, have to invest and sacrifice a lot of things. Yeah. You wanna, if you want to like win games and she knows, uh, hopefully get into, I dunno if we do it, is it. That's 16 in the, in this World Cup or Oh Christ, I'm, I'm not sure 'cause war rugby has not been very clear.

Yeah, we're still waiting on the, 

Carl: on the draw and it and stuff like that as well. 'cause we've still got the char, you've got all of the other bits to figure out how, um, how that's gonna pan out. But I think I read earlier, there's, uh, based on the world rankings, you guys are potentially gonna be in a group with Italy and France and stuff like that as well.

So that'll be, yeah, massive. Because the back of [00:09:00] the Rugby Europe championships you guys were in with Australia and South Africa. So it is all changing at the minute. 

Mario Pichardie: So it's that, that's, that's the our goal. Yeah. For this next five games we got. So we know if we finish from the. I think it's four 15th to 18th or 14th to 18th, something like that.

We enter like in a, in a easier pool. Yeah. That means we give ourself our best chance to win, to win a couple of games. Yeah. In the, in the World Cup. But it's just, we just need to, give a good performance. We need to win United States massive. For us to, yeah, to try to win the, those extra points on the, on the ranking.

Carl: Well, obviously they could be a prime opportunity for you guys to take 'em on as well because they've gotta get prepared for the Pacific Nations Cup as well to, to still throw himself in the ring. For the World Cup. So there's a chance they might still not make it. So what's um, what's the vibe around a camp at the minute as well, ahead of the Canada and the USA games?

Is it, 

Mario Pichardie: it's, uh, it's, it's massive. I think, uh, pressure. We have a pressure now, as I said before, like we want to be in those, we in the 16th ranking. Yeah. And we have, we want to stay there. Even [00:10:00] if we win United States, maybe go on top of them. Yeah. But we, we have a lot of things to improve. It is worth nothing if you go to a World Cup and then you finish.

On the 20th on the world ranking, and you have to pay New Zealand, South Africa, things like that. Do you want, do you want to have you gotta give your best shot to give that image of a, uh, to give, try to give Spain the right image to, to give us respect, I think in Spanish, start being like a good rugby nation.

Mm-hmm. But for that, we need to, we need to, we need to show in the, in the other pitch, 

Carl: obviously off the back of the Georgia defeat at the end of the Rugby Europe championships as well. It is been a little while since the, that happened as well. Have you guys, you've had a, you've had a camp since, or is it No, it, it is just been the first, since the first come back since.

Since it, how's the debrief been of that? Is it Right. We've actually seen, we need, we've done this, this, and this. These players are still fit or available. This is how we are gonna go and play. 

Mario Pichardie: Or, I think the, the first, the first scene was like, we're speaking to our players is like, we need to give [00:11:00] more because.

I think rugby wise Georgia, they have Dimitri Basilaia which I think was on top of everyone. But part of that, I think like in terms of phases. Yeah. So like there wasn't like a line break or I felt dominated. Right. They're just very strong at the MO on the scrum and that's, and we need, and as a forward, as a pack, we need to.

Give a step forward, prepare more ourself, more physically, and I think it's there where we can like show to the, the, the, the distance between them. Yeah. We, we don't, we don't have anything to give away. No. So we have so much things to keep, especially when they're not talented. Things. Hate Scrum. Yeah. More.

I think we managed to show that. In the next couple of years. I think Georgia's could have like a tough time against us. 

Carl: Yeah, it's uh, it, obviously I was there for the game in Madrid as well and yeah, we watching wasn't our best, but at least you were up for a scrap. Everyone was up for the scrap, weren't they?

So, but again, it was just another step closer to what Georgia probably were eight years ago. Yeah. And now where they are, they're like [00:12:00] Portugal and Romania have probably dropped off and you guys are now sort of. Trying to push through again. Yeah. And as you said, the development of the players within Spain mm-hmm.

Is starting to kick in, but how much do you think an impact of players that are playing in France has raised the level of the national side as well? 

Mario Pichardie: So, I'm gonna tell you something, like back in the days we used to have a lot of French players. Yeah. I used to create like a division on the, on the squad.

Oh, okay. So you always has a French player on the Yeah. On the Spanish speakers. Yeah. Uh, you can see like, yeah, you can play good, but people will come here like, like, didn't feel like very comfortable because you get along with it. Yeah. So. I think probably what, what he's trying to do is trying to select the right pieces as well.

I can link it with a, with a team. With a group. I think the best thing we have here is how well we get along with everyone. Yeah. Thing if you start like family. Exactly. I, I'm 10 days in here. Yeah. And for me, this is like holidays, like. I'm doing what I love and I'm laughing all the time with my mates.

It's a weird holiday day mate [00:13:00] that Yeah, exactly. Running around in 40-degree heat , but yeah. No holiday, but, but it is, so I think if you, if we get players that be playing on a high level, like we have every time Joel Merkler comes in Yeah. That stands screws up. Yeah. Like, uh, Joel Merkler everyone feels respected to him and it's just like another physicality trainings.

Improves massively. 'cause because you have your competi. If I'm a background and there's a French background just come by, I have to bring my level up. Yeah. To show Paolo I'm still, I'm still better seven than him. Yeah. So everything goes up. It's massively. But also I think you have to, I. Some people have to be as smart as selecting, like not bring the whole, put the square, whole friendships, 

Carl: putting round pegs in round holes rather.

Exactly. Trying to force players in. Exactly. Obviously we caught up at the start of the Rugby Europe championship as well, and you'd just come off the back of quite a lengthy injury as well, hadn't you? So you were named the youngest ever captain for Spain, is that correct? Before then you come off quite a [00:14:00] large injury and you've, you've.

You're obviously having to work back towards it. Are you back at where you were or you still think you're a few games off, or? 

Mario Pichardie: Uh, physically I think I'm a, I'm a, in terms of running, uh, strength and everything, I think I'm, I'm on, on the toughest level of I've ever been. Yeah. But I still think, uh, I need to show a lot of things in the pitch.

Yeah. I think I haven't had like, a dominant game this year in the wreck. Yeah. To try to earn my, my stripes as captain. So I think I, I just need to keep my mouth sharp, work hard. And for me, the best important thing is to play well on the, on the pitch. 

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: I, I'm not lie, for me being captain is one of the massive honors.

Uh, I, I feel very Spanish and I feel like there's nothing higher for me to be a captain of my country. Yeah. But at the same time, my objective is. For the World Cup. It's be the seventh, the starting seventh for Spain. 

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: If, and, and after that, if after that comes being the captain, I'll happily take it.

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: But my main goal is I want to be the, the starting seventh for Spain. 

Carl: Pulling that shirt on at the World 

Mario Pichardie: Cup. Exactly. That was my, that was my dream at the moment, obviously. 

Carl: [00:15:00] Spain have missed out on the last couple as well. I know we've sort of touched on it previously. Yeah. Has everyone made sure the paperwork's correct this time round?

Yeah. Yeah. He's very, he, he is very 

Mario Pichardie: hard. He's very hard to, if there's like a little doubt. Yeah. He's not, he's not coming to camp. No, he's not even to training 

Carl: because a few players have made himself because put the rounds up in the, in the news and the media and stuff saying they want to be selected for Spain, obviously, uh, most of them in France and stuff because they're probably not getting selected by others.

Is that one of the reason why some players might not be. Look at, just in case it creates an opportunity, that there is a doubt, or is again, as going back to, as you said, the the right players for the right fit, for the right role. 

Mario Pichardie: Yeah. So at the end of the day. So all the French player can't come, most of the French player won't come here.

No, they won't. They won't. They say like they won't come to three weeks training in summer. They won't come. So at the end of the day, you need to take care of your Spanish players. Yeah. 'cause they're guys that are gonna, if they say anything, they're gonna be the first in line to fight for the show and fight for, for the team.

[00:16:00] So it is just, I don't know. It's depending on the position. I dunno how, how it works for, for. For Pablo. Mm. But I think he's, I think he's trying to be, trying to look the best fit for the group. Yeah. I think, is that his, that's his priority that, that give us understanding. Yeah. To my understanding. Perfect.

And that's the priority of it. But at the end of the day, if the Spanish players are not taking it serious, then there's, there's no guarantee you're gonna be here, you know, your time. You just have to be working. It is if, and then. It's just taking cha your opportunity every time you come with Spanish to try and improve on with yourself, uh, and not a second chance by being called to the next camp.

Carl: Yeah. So obviously there's the, there is the rumbling as well of the 24, 20 35 World Cup in Spain. Yeah. How amazing would that be? I think that would be my retirement. I was gonna say, you, you must be clinging. 

Mario Pichardie: I I, I'm calling my retirement after. United States. Yeah. But if we're making to Spain, I'll probably give it a shot.

Yeah. I'm trying to do three World Cups, [00:17:00] but that would be unreal. That would be massive, I think. I think after that, Spain will take a massive step forward. I think that's, that's the catalyst he potentially 

Carl: needs as well. 

Mario Pichardie: It's just, it's just the way I feel. Spain like we've got women's going to World Cup this year.

Yeah. Men's World Cup seven mens. Yeah. They just for a second. they fly, don't they? Women's this year, I, they're not steal the series, but I, uh the twenties. We're on the war cup. Yeah, so everything, I think everything is. We've been like slowly ing, but everything is started like setting Well.

Yeah. I don't, I don't feel like, I don't feel like Spain. I don't want to give shit to Portugal, but I feel like maybe Portugal have like a good race. Yeah. And then they went down. Yeah. I think in Spain has been doing a good job the past few years. Been like stone after stone, after stone, I think now. I feel from outside, I feel like the pro is quite, quite stable and we, and we see things improving, condition for players improving year after year.

And if that grows, if we managed to get to go into the 2031 World Cup and, and, and then do the World Cup at home, I think a lot of, a lot of money will come in. Yeah. And then a lot of. [00:18:00] Like pro professional sets will be start raising and Yeah. And develop over the, 

Carl: even the under eighteens were part of the Six Nation.

Exactly. I know. What, what a performance that, that they've done phenomenal as well, didn't they? So Spain's rugby's in the right hands. It's, as you said, it's just got a, we've gotta get that catalyst for it to go to the next level there. There's 

Mario Pichardie: no ball effect exactly that because 

Carl: as we know what it's probably.

Fifth, sixth sport in Spain. Yeah. Realistically, obviously playing here and being a coach and you see it firsthand from amateur. He is very amateur pe obviously the, the. They, they favor the football. Yeah. Because it's easy and stuff. And do you think the federation have enough of a battle as well with the town halls to try and promote the game on top of trying to also raise the level of the, the top leagues?

Yeah. It's, it's, it's a battle from both sides, isn't it? People want to play the game. Hmm. But you don't always know where you can. Yeah. And the town halls don't really want you to play. Exactly. And then the top of the game, they're trying to. Raise it, put [00:19:00] 'em in the names for the 25, 20 35 World Cup. It's a two-way battle, and we're kinda stuck in the middle where, 

Mario Pichardie: yeah.

I, I think that they spend, I think, I don't know, there's many teams that owns a pitch. No, I think it's every time owned by the ma, by the ma, by the mayor. Town halls. Yeah. But town halls. Yeah. So I, I think there's a big problem because clubs don't have control of the facilities. Correct. Yeah. Um, I'm, I'm so actually from vendors, I've been work, I've been living there.

I played there since 2007. Yeah. I code back. I still have the same change rooms. I still have the same, the same pub. Yeah. Uh, same, uh, same stance. Yeah. They just change, uh, grass to 4G. But it's still, it's still the same. Yeah. It's just like, you feel like if you wanna change something in rugby, so like in terms of club rugby,

Yeah. So much process, so much bureaucratic reasons Depend on the party that's, that's managing that town. Yeah. Could be easier if, it could be harder. It depends on the funds and things that I think that's the main problem because, for example, my, my club [00:20:00] is have 700, 800 kids playing. It's phenomenal. But the problem, if we can get to 900, we don't have anywhere to play.

No. 'cause there's, there's no. Pitch available to play? No. Or to train. So I think that's our ceiling that we face at moment clubs. Yeah. I think our clubs have reached into the limits of kids. Yeah. And they can't expand to get like high quality or higher things. 

Carl: Yeah. Agreed. I think the same issue's gonna be with the World Cup bid as well.

'cause there isn't a dedicated. Rugby stadium. Yeah. It's all, we're gonna have to borrow everything on 

Mario Pichardie: football. Football. Yeah. It's gonna be expensive. 

Carl: Of course it is. Yeah. Because it's literally either the, the tournament's gonna have to be moved slightly because obviously Mo, it's usually played September, which is in the middle of that leaguer.

Mario Pichardie: Yeah. 

Carl: So you're not gonna get the burn about, you're not gonna get via the lid. You're not gonna get all these other amazing stadiums. Mm. So what a massive investment's gotta be made to build rugby stadiums. But then where's the land? Where's the existing infrastructure? Is there 

Mario Pichardie: support that's gonna go there?

Carl: Exactly. 

Mario Pichardie: You don't want play in a game where, yeah, there's 10,000 people watching. 

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: But it fills empty because it's 40, 40 people [00:21:00] watching. That's it. 40 people stands. 

Carl: Well, it's like, obviously I, I come to the Fiji game as well. Yeah. That was a great spectacle. Proper well kitted out and it would the, the fans come, but there was still pockets of emptiness.

Yeah. But. That was probably one of the best attended rugby matches I've seen outside of, outside of the UK as well, and. The appetite's there, but obviously I live down here. It took six, seven hours to get the fires. It's hard. It's a long just, and then took five hours to, to Madrid. Like it's, to be able to cover a whole tournament across the whole whole of Spain's gonna be, be difficult, especially when you sort of go sort of the other side north, uh, sort of northwest, don't you go up towards that.

So, because you 

Mario Pichardie: probably will get games in Bilbao, we'd probably be 10 hours from here. Yeah. 

Carl: And obviously as we saw recently with Bilbao, when the. When the football fans had their final there. Yeah, the prices went through the roof. Yeah. We've got the Challenge cup and the Champions Cup final there this season.

The season coming. So that'd be a really interest in [00:22:00] understanding there. But there's a real good vibe of rugby up in Bill Belt as well, so it is. It's a perfect place to go, but 

Mario Pichardie: I thing is pockets it, the thing, it is the perfect place to go. 'cause you get all the hooligans from France, all the ba, all the ba hooligans from France.

But you wanna be rich. 

Carl: Yeah. It's 

Mario Pichardie: not far away from all the like, property, like, uh, rugby Nation, France. Yeah. So I think Catalonia and Build Back could be like a good place where you can get, you can stock that. Four or five stadiums. Yeah, you can get like a good republic 'cause you'll get all the French, obviously there's plenty of British then you're give like a chance for British people to come.

Oh yeah, yeah. And have a Ang that's in Spain, so they're all gonna take as well. Yeah. So I think that it won't be a problem to fill up the stadiums, but it will be a problem in terms of like, if, just like if it's a game, uh, in the, in the autumn, autumn series, like, yeah. For me, 10,000, 12,000 stadium is perfect.

Yeah. But if we got higher, it starts feeling a bit empty and that thing, that is where Spain rugby loses money. 

Carl: Yeah. [00:23:00] I think what Spain do really well though as well is the, the pre-party. Yeah. That, like, there's not, it's that I think that gets bought into a lot more over here as well. Like you've got the fan zone outside, there's more bits for the kids to do.

I think that's, that's, they've done it the right way round, whereas. Back in the UK and other parts they try to add bit. In after they've already filled the stadiums and then they're like, most people are like, oh, that's alright, I'll go to the pub. 'cause it's cheaper to go to the pub than it is to drink in the grounds.

Obviously. You mentioned your brother earlier as well. Yeah, he's uh, he's obviously playing over in France as well. He ain't a bad player either, is he? So what was, uh, what was your parents feeling? You as kids? They must, they must, 

Mario Pichardie: so , He’s got good genes, so he runs like 35 kilometers per hour. So this skinny, like 86 kilo center?

Yeah. So I'm a bit slow. I have to give him the pick and goats in the mall. Yeah. So he got lucky over there. He got the pace, but he, he's doing very well. Yeah. Um, so obviously one of my gym is to play with my brother [00:24:00] in Spain. Yeah. I think that would be one of like a, like a tick. The tick Yeah. Of of. How, how proud we make we make our family and, uh, how we make me.

Yeah. Uh, I'm, I'm seeing him. This is the first time we're training together. He, he's with the under-20s as well. Oh, he is here. Is he? Yeah. Oh, wow. So it feels quite special. Like you finish a training and you see him walking around. Yeah. Like, it's quite, quite proud moment for me to know that my brother's.

Done then. Yeah. I'm still, obviously we've been living away, uh, away for quite a long time. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels good like to have a, any chance I can get to gain in contact with him again Yeah. And get a bit closer. Uh, thing for me, like it's lot of, uh, relief in my head and. It makes me feel special. How far is it from at your new club to, it's still six hours, so Oh, Christ.

Yeah. To lose from Madrid was six hours and now I'm like on the other, on the other way. 

Carl: Yeah. I'll see him in 

Mario Pichardie: Christmas. At least 

Carl: you're in the the second country this time. That's the change. Um. So obviously he's, he's obviously part of the, the [00:25:00] Tolu setup. Yeah. How did he manage to get that path? Obviously you would've been part of wasps and stuff.

Yeah. Did he opt to go to England or did he? No. So, um, did he decide, obviously, when it went wrong at wasps that he thought, I'm gonna go. So a way 

Mario Pichardie: or everything happened when, um, because I was doing, doing a quite good path at wasps. My family said, look, I think you English, English is a good thing. You cover English, you can be a professional rugby player.

Yeah. And you have time to cover good education. Yeah. I think there's no other country in the world that can. It give you that facility. Yeah. Like I've been at borough with a higher education. Yeah. Train up professional level every time. And I think that's massive for England. So that was the, the main thing while uga, UGA wanted to go to to, to England.

Yeah. But Brexit happened. Ah, so once the Brexit happened, all the doors closed. Shut. down for foreigners. So, um, obviously Joel Merkler, I played with him since I was a kid, a little kid. I, I was, I was quite close with him when we were kids and I text him like, look, I think my brother has the level to be able to be [00:26:00] at Toulouse.

Yeah. Can you send me the details of someone that we can contact to send me the footage and everything when he was 16? Wow. And Joel Merkler I like be like, um. Like a God godfather. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To him. So he spoke with one of the coaches, um, uh, helped my brother to, to like, to have the process, like to give the contacts to him.

Yeah. And then my brother show the features. They like it. He, he previously got invited by Bordeaux. Wow. To go there. He got picked, but. Uh, for you and me since it was since, since we were kids. Our club was to lose. Yeah. So we decided to go to Tallus to see what happens. And then he got picked and then he's been, he won three French championship now.

Not too bad, is it? And just signed a three year deal for, for to lose. Is Joel asking for a signing on fee for scouting him up for I think you got like a, a burger. Perfect. That's 

Carl: a prop. That's the perfect deal. Um, we're now entering. The next phase round for the next Rugby Europe championships. You've got the Autumn [00:27:00] Internationals as well.

You said we got, you got Ton and Fiji, potentially England Day, whatever happens there. What's the target for the Rugby Europe next year round? Personally? Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: I wanna win. Yeah. First I would love to play, uh, to win Georgia over there and then play the semifinals at home. Yeah, because we haven't played semifinals in the past four years.

Yeah. And I would love that, but I reckon it'll be harder at the first game. But I think as every, every hap every time happens in, in with Spain, during the r we start very slow. 

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: We build, we're building and then we reach to the semi-final with Clutch. Yeah. And then in the final we give a good fight.

And I think, I think this year the level the Spanish level has has, is gonna grow a lot. And I think, I think it will give like a higher context to Georgia. And my dream is. Be able to win. Georgia would. Yeah, that would be massive. 'cause I had enough of seeing them winning every year for the past, I don't know how long.

Carl: Yeah, it's um, it's pretty boring. Eight years on the right and obviously the way the draw fell this year, it kind of also did away with the [00:28:00] drama of the qualification as well. So like the top four Yeah. Was a banker. Yeah. Obviously one always wanted to see Spain qualified, but. It could have happened in a different way.

So like the Rugby Europe championship, I think missed a little bit of excitement and drama there. Yeah. I guess 

Mario Pichardie: was, I think, I think when we look, we won, uh, Switzerland. 

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: We, we got qualified, but we played a shit game. Yeah. And everyone, everyone was like depressed after that. Yeah. And we just got qualified for the World Cup.

Yeah. I, I, I've been working for like, since my injury, everything else done possible is to get qualified for the World Cup. Then we beat Switzerland. It just felt like what 

Carl: happened at that game as well, because it was, it was lackluster. It wasn't because obviously I was there, disc, the disconnected.

Disconnected from the really, because obviously there was quite a few rotations as well from the, yeah, from the week before against the Netherlands. That seemed to be on point. The line out mall was. Bob on Everything was right and then Switzerland. Just, I think it's just let them into the game 

Mario Pichardie: a 

Carl: little bit.

Mario Pichardie: It's just for us, [00:29:00] like no respect to Switzerland. No, but like we thought like we were much better than Switzerland. As soon we did something right, we were gonna win. 

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: But I think the, so last year, this time last year, we hit, we sat down to prepare Samo and Tonga, and we started a countdown, right? So every, every meeting.

How many days left for the, for, for Netherlands a hundred days. Oh, okay. You, you sit down in, in November, how many days for the World Cup? 60 days. So everyone at home had their calendar like tick, tick, tick, take. It's five days left, three days left. So it was, everything we we work on was against Netherlands, right?

Netherlands for like, for like seven months. Everything was in Netherlands. Netherlands. As soon. We beat Netherlands. It was like a relief. But then the calendar didn't start a game. Exactly, exactly. It was just, I think it was a real, I think that we disconnected a lot. I thought we jump, uh, jump was done stone, and, and, and then I've never, and then we just got ball because we, I think we played war, war gaming.

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: And then we got kicked in the back [00:30:00] by Georgia. And after that, after Portugal we were on point. And um, and Georgia, I think we were on point for a good 50 minutes. And then after that it just. We scrambled mo that as the final. 

Carl: You didn't play the Georgia game in Madrid? No. Obviously, off the back of like, we sort of caught up briefly beforehand.

Did, did you, were you not selected because of what you felt was your performance? You said you didn't feel no to, 

Mario Pichardie: obviously it was like a. It's hard because yeah, for me, for me, everything I wanna do is Spain by this. Now at the same time you have to leave your air go on the side. 

Carl: Yeah. It's a bigger picture, isn't it?

Mario Pichardie: Yeah. So for me to, the chat that I had the with probably was, um. That I wasn't physic, I wasn't like the aggressive player. I was in the 2024. Yeah. And I didn't convince that my shoulder was on point to play against Georgia. Yeah. And that I need more game time. Yeah. So, uh, I asked, my club was playing that weekend.

I said like, look, you, you're not gonna be selected. And I said like, [00:31:00] fine. Do you say that I'm missing game time? 

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: Do you mind if I go to play my club? Get more game time. Play a decent game. And then for the next few weeks I just focusing, I just wanted to set the, starting in seven against Portugal. So I did like a very good week of training and then got selected 

Carl: what, what an atmosphere that was at at the study or nothing.

Yeah. And to probably to, to get that monkey off your back a little bit as well of going. To Portugal and finally getting the job done, we lost two semifinals in a row. Exactly. How much do you think that then, do you think, going back to what we sort, we discussed a minute ago about the Netherlands bit, do you think getting that monkey off your back also spent too much effort on that semifinal, that semifinal become your final and then the second half of Georgie you kind of run out the tank?

No, I think, 

Mario Pichardie: I think, um, I think Georgia, it is an, it's, it's another level. They got, it's another level. They got another gauge like we, we. Being honest that we're not on the same level. Well, that first half it was, we [00:32:00] 

Carl: were, it was level, weren't it? We were. And Bon Tempo just kept you guys. Yeah. How the, how the fuck does he kick that ball that far?

Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: I, I played with him since I'm 12 years old. Yeah. As well. Did he kick it like that far as a kid? It's a joke. Like worth 14. 14. Anyone 

Carl: tested him? 

Mario Pichardie: Is he like, 

Carl: but 

Mario Pichardie: how Pop does he kick it out far? He is just, he's a little kid. He was like. These massive legs Really, like, he looks like a, like a good prop.

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: And maybe 

Carl: that's his retirement plan. 

Mario Pichardie: Yeah. Like he's, he's, he's like the one of top block show. I'm on camp. Yeah. And for me, he's one of my best friends. I played with him since I, since I'm 12 years old, you know, go in this. 

Carl: So when you played with him when he was 12, did you know that he, he was of that level he could make it for, for me, yeah.

Mario Pichardie: I think he can make it even more. He was so dominant. I've never seen a play that dominant. Uh, he would have a fly half. Obviously when you're 30 to fourteens, like he was so dumb and he wasn't even, I was his outside center. I've never touched the ball. So Didn't need to Exactly. He just carry on. Wow. He just had like, um, he [00:33:00] just, he loved bully people on the edge.

Yeah. Yeah. He, he like he Boshes people And then he has, he loves his boots. Yeah. So he uses a lot. So he was a, he was a hell of a play on the, on the underage. That 

Carl: is a bit of a cheat code. At the minute though, that kicking ability, does the, does Pablo sort of say, right, we've gotta capitalize that and just keep the board ticking.

Is that kind of most of the game plan at times? 

Mario Pichardie: Um, it, it depends or could be, but it taking our chances properly. Yeah. Being smart. The good thing is we can penalize teams like 60 meters from 60 meters. Yeah. There's not many out there that can do that. Exactly. So that's a, that's a massive gun for us. Like if we have a, a penalty in the 56 meters.

Yeah. Do you know, we're gonna, we are gonna think about going up to the two points. So from nothing we can correct three 

Carl: points. Probably the other team are thinking that as well. They're probably just, do I actually have a dabble with that breakdown? Do we not, do I run that risk, but we just, we 

Mario Pichardie: just put in that pressure to them now, so that could, that could leave us playing more freely on the other side.

Yeah. So I think it's a, it is a massive, [00:34:00] massive gun for us. So obviously where's, where's he currently playing? Is he in Massey? 

Carl: Third region as well? Oh, over in France as well. Yeah, because I've been, as I said, I've been watching the pro, the summer kicking over there is just unreal. Like obviously Boss V for Month to Bond the other day.

Yeah, it's called a drop goal from halfway line. Just like what is going on here? Like it's, I mean, I, I seen the team from Grob doing a couple of good kiss this, this season. Yeah. Saturday. Yeah. He's, yeah. It was just different gravy in France and like they were talking about how good those players are naturally kicking and obviously I.

He's, uh, he seems to have probably settled in over there. Yeah. What is the long-term plan then? Is it hopefully to try and get your, your, your shirt in to lose, to play with your brother and then both of you come across 

Mario Pichardie: or Yeah. It's, it is been realistic. Like for me, I know till 14 is, is far away. Yeah. And I, my dream, I think Trump probably do, probably do, he is my, will be my target.

My target. And I, and I went on to try like switch to bands. And I would like to go to Vans or Yeah. [00:35:00] But at the end of the day, any club goes, anyone, any club that I can offer that possibility, I will, I will jump on the boat 

Carl: back to England at all. 

Mario Pichardie: No, 

Carl: no, no 

Mario Pichardie: interest. I, it's, it is not interesting. It's just I feel economically, I can't live from rugby over there.

Carl: Yeah. 

Mario Pichardie: And uh, and I think championship is not a professional level. You do. You all felt yourself like you'd been professional. No. So I think it's the way that people say it's like a farmer's league. You go, you train in the week and you go get your head smashed by. Yeah. Like massive blokes for Yeah. For peanuts for, yeah.

And he's, he's, and he's just like, I feel it kills a bit the, the fun of rugby. Yeah. Like all this, that one, that second, when I was younger, I, I don't know if I'm old. I will enjoyed it. Yeah. But when I was younger, it killed because you play against 30, 40 old man. Yeah. They just want to bully you. Punch you.

Yeah. The face. And there's no rugby. It's just straight running. Yeah. Straight running. No, no skills. And it's just like, kills a bit the, the mood. 

Carl: Any ambition to go further afield, like [00:36:00] anywhere else 

Mario Pichardie: or are you just happy? Yeah. No, no, I'm, uh, let's how I go. Obviously Paolo was coach of pen role and we got a C as well.

He's been working with Pablo all this time. Yeah. Uh, I don't know how, if I could get our contract in France, because I'll have a lot of Spanish commitment during the World Cup. Yeah. But I would love to try Japan of, of south of Super America rugby. So 

Carl: been covering the Super America rugby as well recently.

And, and obviously the dos, the recent final and stuff. It's. Good 

Mario Pichardie: level of rugby 

Carl: down 

Mario Pichardie: there. Yeah. And I, and I, I would like, I would like to take that step. I think it would be like. You know, the good thing in rugby, you can use it to travel the world. Yeah, yeah. New cultures, and for me that will be, that'll be like a good, good opportunity after the World Cup get like a six weeks, six months of, you know, train new things to get back on a, on a refreshing, yeah, refreshing mindset.

Carl: Well, Ali Surveyors just resigned for, um, W Pacific. No, he is just resigned for the sun walls, I believe today. It's been really, he's going back to Japan for a [00:37:00] season. So he's having, so when he goes back to Moana, there might be an option for you. Oh, I for in Japan. Um, so with wasps as well. Who was the, who was the, when you were there, that must have been sort of at the end of their golden era.

Yeah, that's correct. So who was, who was the best player you got the opportunity to sort of play and train around? 

Mario Pichardie: Jacob Marga, I think is, was he was on another level. Yeah. Jacob Marga. I've never seen a play Do, like, manipulate the defense like he does. Right. Like a a, any hints you give him, he will pick on it.

And, uh, I, and I just, I, I was amazed like playing against him. I was amazed. Yeah. But for me, the play that I most liked to play in terms of global was Brett Shield, thinking that he's been like my sort of idol. Yeah. People, I want to follow his footsteps. Yeah. Uh, how he's as a person. Yeah. Very polite, very respect.

He gives, uh, he's kind to everyone. Yeah. I think I got treated, treated very well by him at wasps. Uh, and then the way he works, like he. I would say [00:38:00] him, he more one of the most skillful players. No, but he has an engine, he runs everywhere. He sprints. He's the first one on the line to chase a kick. 

Carl: Mm-hmm. 

Mario Pichardie: He always makes tackles always there to give messy on the, on the rock.

Yeah. And I see myself like a bright shells type of player in terms of number six and jumping line option. Yeah. And for me, he was one of the, one of the players I wanted to, I wanted to follow, follow, follow on from. 

Carl: Yeah. He was one of the players that you sort of grew up with or played with. And then.

Didn't quite make it, but you thought they could be at the top. Alfie Barbeary. 

Mario Pichardie: Really? I think I've never seen a player that dominant in my life. Yeah. When, uh, he was our hooker in, in, in the AASE Cup, he would chip and chase. Yeah. Little kicker from the reset ly kicker from the restart. Kick it over the second road, catch it, fake offload, then he will, if five minutes out of the of the try line, he will pick and go on score.

I've never seen a play that dominant and I think he has. He's been very unlucky with injuries. Yeah, and I thought I was gonna see him early. [00:39:00] I was gonna see him quite a long time ago with an english 

Carl: shirt Not done too bad though. Picking up the trouble with half at the minute though, is he may, I think we'll probably put that on an end.

Thanks to uh, that little disco techer that's about to join us, but I really appreciate your time mate. Thank you very much for coming. Hopefully, obviously we can catch up again at the next Rugby Europe championships and Perfect. We can carry on promoting the, the game in Spain as well. I think it's, it's a big passion for the pair of us.

Yeah. Really appreciate mate. Thank you very much. 

Thank you mate.