Rugby TTL - Series 2 - Episode 4 - Shawn Ingle Interview

From Johburg to Germany: Shawn's Rugby Journey
In this episode of Rugby Through the Leagues podcast, we dive deep into the unique rugby journey of Shawn Ingle, a player who has experienced the sport across three continents. Shawn shares his fascinating journey from playing school rugby in Johannesburg, South Africa, to studying in Australia, and finally moving to the UK where he plays for Maidenhead Rugby Club and represents Germany in the Rugby Europe Championships. We discuss the challenges of balancing a full-time job with international rugby, the emotional highs and lows of the tournament, and the importance of grassroots rugby. Tune in to hear about the ups and downs of transitioning between sevens and fifteens rugby, how Shawn navigated eligibility issues, and the future aspirations for both his club and national teams. Don't miss this compelling episode that highlights the passion and dedication it takes to play rugby at various levels and locations around the world.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
01:08 Shawn's Rugby Journey: From South Africa to the UK
03:03 Joining the German National Team
04:47 Rugby Europe Championships: Challenges and Reflections
08:48 Balancing Rugby and Work
10:39 Favorite Matches and Experiences
13:30 Team Dynamics and Future Plans
22:44 Maidenhead Rugby Club and Personal Growth
25:21 Sevens Circuit and Signature Red Scrum Cap
27:42 The Importance of Wearing a Scrum Cap
28:36 Family Support and Rugby Travels
29:12 Comparing Grassroots Rugby Across Continents
32:52 Transitioning to International Rugby
38:35 Cambridge Rugby Experience
44:39 Future Aspirations and Reflections
47:42 Germany's Rugby Potential and Sevens Success
50:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Shawn Ingle Episode

Carl: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of Rugby Through the Leagues podcast This week we have managed to get Shawn Ingle on He isn't wearing his trademark red scrum cap that he wore all the way through the Rugby Europe Championships but it's an honor to have him here and it's a great opportunity to talk about grassroots rugby and rugby Europe all at the same time cause Shawn, for those that don't know who do you play for in your normal club game and obviously who you uh represent for Rugby Europe Championships And thanks for being here

Shawn Ingle: Thanks so much Carl for having me. It's great to, great to be on the pod. Um, yeah, played for Maidenhead rugby club that here in, in Europe, in London and it's uh, obviously been a pretty journey with them so far. So I been on the pod and, uh, keen to talk about Grassroots rugby being and everything about Rugby Europe.

Carl: Yeah Brilliant So how did you end up at Shawn? Because it's obviously uh Will Greenwood's over there Is [00:01:00] he uh he he's obviously pretty well versed in England rugby Are you a local to Shawn or did you sort of stumble and upon it

Shawn Ingle: I am not, and I'm not local there, so I kind of stumbled upon it. I, um, when I first moved over to the uk I was studying, uh, a masters up at Cambridge University and, um. Before that I was at, uh, at Melbourne, um, and my club director of rugby had played, uh, for the Jets when he was playing in France professionally. And he said, when you go to the UK, you

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: to play seven for justice. So when I went, went over there, I got in touch, and, uh, the head coach Mosey, um, I sort of asked him when I was finishing up with my, uh, Cambridge, um, you know, what, what, what's going on? We were just talking about rugby, and he said, why did you just come down to Spain and have a play? and that's how I joined the club. And I was, uh, starting a job here, uh, just in, in working. So I'm not actually that close to Maidenhead, but um, it's only a 40 minute, 40 minute ride up the

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: I just decided to, to, to lock in there. It's been a great experience.

Carl: [00:02:00] so I'm guessing you're not originally a a an English native Is that is that fair to say Where'd where'd you originally originate from then

Shawn Ingle: is fair to say. Yeah, I was, um, I was born and bred at Johburg in South Africa.

Carl: Oh okay Nice So when did you sort of make it across to to English Shores And did you did you play much over in Joberg as well Did you sort of learn your trade out there

Shawn Ingle: I mean, definitely learned my trade up in Joburg. I was there for 18 years the whole way through my school in Korea. So I played school war rugby,

Carl: Nice

Shawn Ingle: down in, down in Joburg. I was at a, a fairly small rugby school, but we loved our rugby, just like every school does, basically in the country. Um, and that's where I sort of played, um. And sort of moved through the ranks and, uh, after school, went to study in Australia and was there for a couple years playing club rugby there and studying. Um, and three, two and a half, three years ago now, I moved over to the UK and there ever since grade level.

Carl: Nice So how did the [00:03:00] call up for Germany come about then

Shawn Ingle: I, um, my grandfather.

Carl: Right

Shawn Ingle: I've always sort of had the connection to Germany through him. I got a passport when I was in my teen teenage years. And then, um, when I moved over to this side of the world, another friend of mine from Melbourne, basically when he learned that I had a German passport, he said he knew the German sevens coach and told me that I should get in touch when I'm over because they usually sort of on the scout for, for decent players knocking about.

Shawn Ingle: And um, I got in touch with the, the German sevens guys and they invited me over for a training camp.

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: an awesome experience. And then that weekend we actually went, uh, they were like, by the way, we've got a tournament in Zimbabwe this week. You wanna do, you wanna hop on a train and join us? And I was studying at the time, so I had sort of fairly flexible Zimbabwe and played a seventh tournament with them.

Shawn Ingle: And it was just, that was the beginning of the, the German rugby, um, journey. And they've just been, they opened me, they opened their arms to me. Uh, very

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: it's been an amazing experience ever, ever [00:04:00] since.

Carl: so obviously it started with the sevens How did you sort of cause a lot of people get tarnished once they've started sevens and that's as far as they they go How did you manage to get into the 15 setup Was it because of your club rugby Shawn, or was it Something that you'd naturally progressed into and wanted to put your hand up to as well

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, I mean, I've always been interested in both codes at the game. I

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: a lot more fifteens growing up. Um, sevens was something that kind of played a few autonomous in the summer, and that was about, that was about it really. Um, and even though the opportunity first arose with Germany through the sevens, um, coach got in touch with me fairly soon after I started playing sevens and asked me if I was in. I said yes, definitely. Um, that kind of just once again got invited to a training camp and sort of the rest is history.

Carl: Yeah brilliant And uh obviously this Rugby Europe Championships Hasn't probably gone the way that you guys expected uh is obviously we we kept in [00:05:00] touch over the the period didn't we And there was a there was a few games that were even I messaged you and thought that was it It's it's time that the result's gonna come And what's what's your sort of debrief What did you feel that ha that went wrong in the tournament cause it st it it could have started so so well that first sort of 20 minutes In in Romania was pretty much on point when it and we kind of didn't see that again until the first 20 minutes of the Switzerland game

Shawn Ingle: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a, it's a tough one and it definitely was a, a tough tournament. We, um, we, in the last couple years, Germany have done, done all right, sort of finishing sixth, and we,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: um, and we're just, we're definitely expecting to, to do that or better this year obviously was a pretty special one with the chance of qualifying for, for World Cup for teams that we're up for it.

Shawn Ingle: So the boys were

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: for it. And I think, like I said, we started really strong. We

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: just really struggled [00:06:00] to put a full 80 minute performance in the whole, the whole tournament, um, sort of were played by a few unfortunate injuries as well throughout the, throughout the, the time. And, uh, maybe just didn't have the, the 23 players that we needed to finish out games every week. Um, so yeah, it was a real, real tough one for us. I think we definitely didn't perform as, as well as we wanted to as a unit. And, um. Yeah, I guess the results showed, uh, in that sense.

Carl: Yeah because obviously I was covering the the games writing articles and stuff and pretty much the I don't think you had The same team sheet at any point throughout the tournament did you there was there was always at least a few changes consistently and potentially locked you off your rhythm as you said Um obviously you had a blinding tournament mate to be to be honest I I was I I couldn't wax more lyrical about how well you'd done [00:07:00] throughout the tournament and I think a lot of people Would've probably put you in a a team team of the tournament from outside of the the the teams that had got obviously got the results What was your what was your takeaways cause it must have been really hard to try and keep yourself upbeat and confident within a an environment that's wasn't quite getting there and that you're obviously having to try and lift the lads and carry the lads around to an to a certain extent to To push him. And what how did you sort of enjoy your tournament obviously apart from the results

Shawn Ingle: I mean, apart from the results obviously, which were were tough. The end of the tournaments and would definitely sort of weighed a bit heavy on me that we, we, as a unit hadn't done that well. Um, but I still, I had a great time. It was my first, my first Rugby Europe championship. Um,

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: time. I played a few caps, uh, beforehand, but it was the first time I'd actually had sort of a solid campaign of, of international Rugby weekend week house.

Shawn Ingle: And I just sort of

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: I thrived [00:08:00] on the experience. I, I, I really enjoyed, uh, going to play at, at stadiums against international teams. And I think for

Carl: Mm-hmm

Shawn Ingle: I mean, playing here in

Shawn Ingle: Maidenhead is all good, but being able to test myself against sort of international level athletes and guys that I had a, a really high caliber for me, it just, the challenge that I, I think I relished. Um, so yeah, it was, it was a tough six weeks. The result, didn go for us and was a pretty moving schedule, traveling back and forth, forth from, um, the UK 'cause I was still working full time during the

Carl: Oh wow

Shawn Ingle: Um, but uh, even besides that, I was just sort of on cloud nine to be playing International rugby and just so keen, uh, and chopping at the bit for the opportunity.

Shawn Ingle: So for me, I was just sort of trying to do my best and, uh, yeah, I felt like I, I played some decent rugby, um, over the, over the course of the tournaments and really enjoyed myself.

Carl: Yeah well obviously the tackle the tackle stats sort of backed up how well you'd done in the in the tournament Obviously probably having to defend a lot more helped cause of there was probably a lot more coming at you [00:09:00] So um how did that work then Obviously if you were working and then you obviously had games cause it was The the the start of the tournament was like every week for the first three weeks when it then we had a a two week gap and then we had another two week gap Were you sort of having to be released sort of a Thursday Friday before the before a game or was there a longer lead in or is it a case of this is your work on can you go and do this before you come to camp on this date Or how did that work out

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, so we, we normally have camp, uh, sort of starting on a Wednesday or Thursday, uh, and a lot of the boys, because as a team we've got very few full-time pros, so a lot of the guys are all working as well. So we'd usually have training on sort of the. On evening, on a Wednesday, Thursday type of thing. Uh, except for the first week where we had a full week of preparation,

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: to really get, get going for that. Um, so yeah, usually I'd, I'd fly over from a sort of on Wednesday or Thursday and then we'd have evening training sessions throughout the day. Luckily that my job allows me to work with me, [00:10:00] so I was able to sort

Carl: Oh perfect

Shawn Ingle: a line, um, and then. Usually we travel to where the country is on the, on Friday. Um, and then it's just all rugby from that point.

Shawn Ingle: So it's, we had to obviously take a few days of leave, which was, was fine to, to do. but yeah, typically then once Friday comes around, we we're locked in and it's all, it's all fun focus on rugby. And we had a few Sunday games, which gave us two

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: people days preparation for before a Sunday fixture and then fly back home on the, on the Sunday night or the Monday, and then Ritz repeat again.

Carl: Out of the out of the games you went and played and the places you went and played in the tournament what was your favorite What was the one that stood out

Shawn Ingle: I think for me it was Portugal. I, um, I really enjoyed the Romania fixture and traveling away to, to Netherlands school, but that Portuguese, uh, crowd in the stadium and just the, the experience of being Lisbon for a game rugby was, was really cool. It was, there were a lot of people there. Um,

Carl: I

Shawn Ingle: It was just real noisy and just a cool experience.

Shawn Ingle: And even though [00:11:00] didn't play, uh, we, we, we had good, a good 40. I think once again, we didn't have the best results in that. I felt like, um, that was one of my better performances of the tournament,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: able to play against some boys that were at the World Cup that really stood out against themselves, obviously. Um, Nicholas Martins was my opposite man. Just the opportunity to play against flow like that, it was unreal. So had a great time.

Carl: Yeah Yeah And then there was obviously the the the two tries late on where they tried to play sort of zue rugby as well didn't they And uh gave gave you a couple of points back but I had the pleasure of obviously going to the Iberian Darby and The atmosphere as you say was it was different class And I think sort of Portuguese rugby in that sense is a bit of an unearthed gem for how passionate they are as a group of fans and as you they get together and it's uh yeah they can make a fair bit of noise out of even a a fairly empty stadium cause they're not they're not quite massively full cause they they pick the bigger ones What was Friday [00:12:00] Night Lights in Bucharest then That must have been pretty impressive though the first opening game of the tournament as well

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, absolutely. And that's a, it's a pretty fun stadium, so that was definitely a great experience for me too. I mean, stadium is, is not the biggest, and it was, it was fairly full on the day that. Much, uh, an amazing experience opening game of the, of the 20. Yeah

Shawn Ingle: and yeah, running out there, it was like, wow, this is, now we've come to play.

Shawn Ingle: And I think that got, got the juices going and really, um, yeah. It's just a also, once again, an amazing experience.

Carl: Yeah quality Um we're gonna have to speak about that drop goal then aren't we Really That was I don't think anyone saw that coming I don't think anyone thought Switzerland had that sort of drop goal in the bag but what was the feeling after that went over

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, I've tried to put that deep in the, the recess of my memory and, and get it [00:13:00] out of there, to be honest. 'cause that was, I think, most sort of heartbroken I felt after rugby, the game I've ever played,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: it felt like we were in control for the whole thing. And then it like, uh. It just had been snatched away from us at the last minute and it just, it felt pretty cruel, um, in reality.

Shawn Ingle: But so it was, it was a low point for sure. And, um, something that, you know, I try to move on from.

Carl: Yeah How does how how does the teams get together after that How do you sort of process that as a as a team as well cause it's As you said it's heartbroken for one person but as a as a group of lads that have gone through the whole tournament together or not together obviously who was there and then it it ends in what it was about the 83rd minute 84th minute and as you said you were pretty much in control for 60 60 minutes of the [00:14:00] game But those little bits had crept back in and let em in And how how did you guys come away Did you all go away and just have to sort of lock yourself in a in a room kangaroo court style and just try and drink yourself to to to back to normality or was was it you sort of had to go and try and do other normal conventional things that other outside rugby people do

Shawn Ingle: Obviously everyone was in the same boat as me and, and

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: with it. And it's, it's unfortunate because at the last game of the tournament, you sort of don't have another chance to rectify yourself until the next year. So there's a big, there's a

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: gap until, um, we can really do anything about it as a group. um, I think at the end of the day, we, I mean we all sat together in the change room and a chat about it and it reflected, um, on the, on the tournaments, on and on how things can really go our way and. Um, I mean that was basically all we all we could do. I think everyone also ended up, um, [00:15:00] meeting up together at a pub and just sort of celebrating some of the, the small successes that we've been able to have, uh, over the tournament. 'cause even though didn't all go our way, there's definitely things to, to grow on and, uh, uh, so a few boys made the first caps. Few boys have really had, uh, good experiences through it. And I think, um, the plan is to just try and take the, the hurt from this year and make. Sort of work for us in in next season.

Carl: Because you had that young is it Christopher Henning The 10 he's he sort of made his his bow what the second of the last game He's sort of come in and he looked pretty comfortable for what 20 years old Sort of straight into the deep end pretty much on the back foot with you guys And he looked it looks like you guys have got a fairly solid call throughout obviously um Lil Wolf yourself Uh and then obviously the if Henning and you got is I can't I can't pronounce his surname the the the 15 that literally can [00:16:00] kick it from the other side of the moon

Shawn Ingle: Yeah.

Carl: He it he's got one hell of a boot on him and he and like if you can get that all ticking together there's there's no reason you can go you can't go that and obviously rectify next year But next year is obviously the relegation battle So we're gonna there's gonna be the finals day supposedly So everyone all games are played on the last day So there's a bigger sort of emphasis on next season with you guys to rectify it but missing out on that World Cup opportunity as well Must have It was quite disappointing the tournament at that sort of thing because after the first two games the top four spots were already done It was it was down to that fifth spot when it and I think if some of the games have been sort of shuffled and maybe the the top teams have played each other at the start some of that result may have been A little bit different Do you think that as well that it kind of removed all jeopardy from the tournament

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, a a little bit for sure. I think, um, yeah, maybe if you, like you [00:17:00] said the order had been changed. It could be a bit more, a bit more exciting. Um, I feel like usually there's, there's obviously a lot to play for as you go into the, the final rounds, but it felt like I.

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: The team that made it sort of obviously celebrated and that was sort of job done, um,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: packed bags. But, um, yeah, I mean obviously for, for us it was a very outside chance of, uh, making into that fifth place playoff, um, once we got to the sort of end of the group stages. So, um, I think for, for the teams like obviously Belgium, uh, the Netherlands and ourselves and maybe there, there's a bit more sort of still. to us and, and potential opportunity. Um, and I think there was, there was, there was still hope and belief that there's, that's something we could, you know, pull the hat outta the bag, which he had one good performance to go our way and we could make our way into that sort of, um, that sort of sphere.

Shawn Ingle: But yeah, just as it happened, it wasn't the case.

Carl: Uh so have you guys got any preseason Well at summer tour Have you got any games Germany got [00:18:00] any games in the summer at all to try and get yourself your eye in ready for the next European championships

Shawn Ingle: Last I heard that we, we hadn't been able to line anything up. I think we've struggled a bit funding wise, um, this last, this last season. So, um, yeah, I think we're hoping that something will come up, but, um,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: I haven't, haven't heard of it at

Carl: it's a shame isn't it cause he because like Belgium weren't so Belgium obviously got into the qualifying spot didn't they And they they originally didn't have any summer all lined up so they had nothing to prepare him to go into the November qualifications They they ended up having to swap with Holland uh Netherlands The Netherlands have swapped so that they could go to the USA to at least get their eye in before So these two, two nations having that opportunity to get a summer tour together and stuff as you sort of touched on with funding it it can it it it makes it harder for you guys to be create that team environment [00:19:00] as well a little bit Do you think because as you said you had to literally squeeze everything together in a week Camp before the start of the tournament and then try and get expect to get a result out of it cause I was speaking to the the Netherlands team as well Um after the Spain game the first game of the tournament they said we've literally had a week together We've we've had to come here and play Spain and we've had a week together And then obviously they went and put a better performance in against obviously Georgia the week after And then obviously did the the demolition job on on the Swiss How hard is that How how's a coach as well obviously from a from a player's point of view when you turn up to camp how does a coach sort of be how does he try to convey his ideas into a weak like you said it's your first European championships first time you've pulled that shirt on in such a co championship level How do the coaches sort of try and convey that message in [00:20:00] such a concise space without ruining the message at the same time

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, it's, uh, it's definitely a challenge I think.

Carl: Mm-hmm

Shawn Ingle: and it's, it's something that we, we, we face and obviously there's other, other countries in in the league that have a similar problem, those that, that struggle to get people in, in, in time. Um, and yeah, with only a week to go, I. And people obviously coming from different teams that have different playing styles and, um, the whole name of the game is how to build the cohesion as quick as possible. Uh, and I think one of the approaches our coaches have taken, um, particularly, and I can only mainly speak for the forwards 'cause that's, that's where I'm playing is, um,

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: kind of kept the, the same sort of philosophy and um. style from previous years. So, I mean, I made my debut against Hong Kong in 2022, and we still had a very similar uh. We've kept a similar game plan, basically, and that that at least creates a bit of continuity. [00:21:00] Obviously for lads that have never been in the setup, they've gotta learn that from scratch in, in

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: which it's, which is not the simplest thing, but, um, yeah, I think trying to keep continuity and having the same people around year after year obviously makes a, a big difference.

Shawn Ingle: And it's a, it's, it's a slow build 'cause you've only got

Carl: Mm

Shawn Ingle: little time together, um, and you've just gotta try and make the most out of the time that you have. often that sometimes means that you maybe would do more sessions that you might need to do, uh, normally. Uh, and I guess it's a balance between being physically primed and being actually, um, I guess mentally across the game plan.

Shawn Ingle: So there's, it's a tricky balance to, to get right.

Carl: Do they do they have a lot of stuff sort of out out in WhatsApp groups or on little tablets saying this is the game plays et cetera et cetera cause I've spoke to a few coaches and that's how they try to convey their message Like at an international level do you you've literally got a WhatsApp group with all the forwards this is your line out jumps This is this does is that an option that they utilize [00:22:00] as well to try and get everyone together

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, that's, that's pretty much it. Yeah. Spot on. I

Carl: Oh real

Shawn Ingle: yeah, the, it's the only way other than we, we had quite a few, um. Sort of, I guess, uh, just session like Zoom meetings to get in touch with each other, uh, and, and

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: things a couple months beforehand. The prep started a few months beforehand, even though we weren't able to physically meet together, um, as a full squad.

Shawn Ingle: The, there was a core group that met every Sunday and, and trained together for a few months beforehand. Uh, the ones that were obviously close enough to Heidelberg that could make it. and other than that, yeah, the WhatsApp group definitely served as a, as a key source of information for us to just get across all the game plans, the lineup moves, the um, the set plays, uh, everything we.

Carl: There must have been a lot of pinned messages throughout that WhatsApp group just to if you didn't keep losing all your all your line out plays So obviously when you went back to Maidenhead after your your star studied European [00:23:00] championship tour How did how were the lads Were they as the usual rugby lads sort of making out you're an A-list celeb sort of uh having a have a little bit of banter with you Or was it just back to normal business as usual we've gotta get on with this this season How did that how did the season go as well I

Shawn Ingle: Definitely, definitely a bit of ban thrown about, but you wouldn't expect anything. Um,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: it was all very good nature. It was obviously I lot lad I'd missed, I'd missed being there and they'd, uh, missed having me around. And I ended up not playing a whole lot for maids of the season just because of all the, all the Germany stuff. I think I only got just over half the games in, throughout the course of the season. Um, 'cause obviously over that, that period I think was like eight weeks of, of, of missing, missing out.

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: it was still great to, great to be back with with the club and, um, we've, we've. I think this season we pretty much hit almost all of our targets. Uh, we were kind of, um, [00:24:00] in the, in the midfield where we were really hoping to be, I think last year we, we struggled and we we're battling for allegation, um, towards the end of the season.

Shawn Ingle: And this year we weren't sort of even in, in a shout of that. So I think for us that was a good step forward. Um, and brought in some, some, so new players and as a squad just really had grown, I think. Um, it's great to see, when I first joined Men Head a couple of seasons ago, um, we obviously had guys that were thrown into playing first grade rugby because we kind of had lost a bit of depth at that point.

Shawn Ingle: And now they're

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: making their, their names as sort of proper, uh, starting, starting players and able to play it at this level. So, um, I think for me. As a sort of a, I guess a slightly more senior player. 'cause we've got a lot of young boys, even though I'm only 26. Uh, it's

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: the growth of the squad and uh, I think as a result it was a pretty successful seat for us.

Carl: Solid Did they obviously when you you come back did they sort of [00:25:00] lean on some of the the international plays or did they sort of make sure you didn't teach anyone if they dropped in the pocket to let em let let em kick the drop goal sort of thing Was that was there was certain plays they didn't let you guys sort of anywhere near

Shawn Ingle: Uh, no, we definitely, I think we've got, got our, our Maidenhead moves and nothing, nothing changes basically.

Carl: Nice So obviously as you said you also dabble with the with the rambling gestures for the sevens Is there have you got much of a circuit plan for the summer to keep you busy or is it sort of you're trying to play catch up from your your day job cause of all the time you add off with the uh with with the German side

Shawn Ingle: it's a little bit of that. I, um, we, we've signed up for Jess, have signed up for a couple of, sort of midweek tournaments this year, which I'm not gonna be

Carl: Oh well

Shawn Ingle: uh, because the fact that it would be during the workday. Um, obviously the London 30 sevens last week that you were at, was, was one of those, it looked like already class tournament.

Shawn Ingle: I sat, I

Carl: Oh phenomenal

Shawn Ingle: But,

Carl: It was yeah

Shawn Ingle: yeah, obviously I, I, I've [00:26:00] got very limited leave and I wanna actually have a bit of holiday this year, so I am planning on

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: for some holidays. Um, yeah, so I'm actually not gonna get too many run run outs for the, the Jets. I missed a tournament, not this weekend, but the run before, 'cause I've got a bit of a wrist injury that I'm still carrying from the Netherlands game. Uh, which I just needed to, to heal up, uh, for a few weeks. So, um, this year, unfortunately, I'm not gonna get too many suggests in, but I definitely will get a couple run outs, um, for, for them. And, uh, yeah, very keen to, keen to get a few, few tos in.

Carl: Nice So as I said at the start you did pretty much have a your red scrum cap was pretty much your trademark signal throughout the uh Throughout the tournament And then in the last game I think you had to donate it to was it Lewis Ball or something cause he got a head injury and then the commentator kept mixing you two up as well which was quite funny cause nobody realized it had changed And you were both just [00:27:00] trying to nail everything that come at you Uh how did so how did that become is that something you've always had always had a red scrum cap Is that just You thought that's that's the one Rather than trying to hide away from a ref you're just gonna try and make yourself look like a beacon and give him no option to only see you Or how how did that one come about

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, interesting question. Um, I mean, first of all, it's always a privilege to be, I guess, switched around to Lewis Ball. So it's good that I've got compete with him, but he puts in some big hits for sure. Uh, a really

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: But

Carl: I think that's how his that's how his head got split open That was why he was he was having a

Shawn Ingle: absolutely.

Carl: he

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, absolutely. He

Carl: was uh

Shawn Ingle: a massive shot on, on the, on the

Carl: He did

Shawn Ingle: obviously a big boy himself, and it was a, it was a

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: You could hear it from miles away. Uh, and that's

Carl: Really

Shawn Ingle: head split opened and obviously had to get that taped up. But he wanted a bit of extra padding, so I donated my strong cap to him. But yeah, I've always worn a scrum cap growing up, so I

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: it's just been something, um, I've always done and uh, the couple games that I [00:28:00] haven't worn it, I've either got concussed to have my head split open as well, just 'cause I tend to stick

Carl: Oh wow

Shawn Ingle: of, uh, a lot of dark places ing over my ball or

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: making tackles and whatnot.

Shawn Ingle: So I like to have a little bit of protection against the split scope. But, um, yeah, I've had different colors over the year. Why? But yeah, Red's just the, the one that I've had for the last couple years. Um, it definitely helps when commentators are able to, to see, see the red scrum cap. Um, and yeah, just for you be got even large stream games that they Maidenhead mom and dad watching home in South Africa.

Shawn Ingle: At least they can see the, the red scrum cap.

Carl: Oh

Shawn Ingle: uh, you need to get

Carl: nice nice So obviously as you said mom and dad are back in South have they managed to make it across to many games Did they manage to sort of get it across to the Rugby Europe stuff or was they planning for that next year Are they all

Shawn Ingle: They weren't able to get across

Carl: I

Shawn Ingle: So it's not something we planned in time, really. I, we didn't

Carl: no

Shawn Ingle: about it until too late. Uh, and it's obviously, it's not the cheapest thing [00:29:00] to get over this side of the world,

Carl: No

Shawn Ingle: maybe more people will try and do that for, for next 

Shawn Ingle: week. 

Carl: Yeah it'd be nice Finals day would

Shawn Ingle: yeah, I'd love for them to come watch me play in national rugby game.

Shawn Ingle: I think that would be a special moment for both of us.

Carl: yeah that'd be pretty pretty epic Imagine Uh finals day would probably be a good one At least it's all all the games Room one go and uh one one spot for em to come to So Obviously grassroots rugby You've obviously been over here for a little while now You've dabbled over in Australia You've obviously been in South Africa How does grassroots rugby compare between those three places Obviously over here it's probably got one brand of rugby You've got another brand in Australia you've probably got another brand in South Africa How what's what's your comparisons of how the game is is done in in those three three areas I

Shawn Ingle: I mean, there's, I guess there's lots of layers to that. Um, and

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: as, as countries and playing styles, find distinct [00:30:00] differences between between three. Overseas. South Africa is traditionally known as sort of very much, um, sort of kick kicking game and, uh, forwards dominated with, with big bodies around.

Shawn Ingle: And, um. At the international level. But

Carl: I

Shawn Ingle: found that at, uh, I guess at the school board level, it was very much, uh, about sort of open running brand of rugby. Um, and that was sort of my main experience there. Obviously the school boy rugby scene in, in South Africa, it's just huge and that's where all kids play.

Shawn Ingle: It's not much club rugby, um, going on there. So I think a lot of people either. Make it into sort of the varsity cup size and play university or, and then either in a academy and play, end up playing pro or just kind of lose, lose the rugby. It's not as strong of club games as you see in the uk. Um,

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: I mean. Moving here. the strength and the depth of the club game here has been something that's been remarkable. Obviously there's a, [00:31:00] there's, there's so

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: clubs and so many people that just love to run around, no matter what level they're playing at. They just love to have a game. Rugby, there's, uh, a very rich old, uh, club rugby culture here, which is, is pretty special, in the, in the uk.

Shawn Ingle: So I, I mean, that's, that's a big difference I noticed between, between two. Um, South Africa and the uk and then in Australia it was, obviously rugby is, I think it's only the sixth or seventh biggest sport in, in the country there. So, um, for, for a country that does pretty well at it, they, um, it's definitely not a popular thing, particularly where I was in Melbourne.

Shawn Ingle: I didn't know this at the time when I moved there, that it's, it's sort of, it's not even that well known at all. So for me,

Carl: Oh wow

Shawn Ingle: The rugby experience in Melbourne was, was really interesting 'cause I moved over there expecting it to be this big thing, but it's actually a bit of a niche sport with quite a small rugby community, similar to what it might

Carl: Oh wow

Shawn Ingle: in a lot of the tier two nations in Europe

Carl: Mm

Shawn Ingle: Um, but as a result it was a super close rugby [00:32:00] community. Lots of people from, um, outside, so the islands, uh, south Africans, Irish, um, Kiwis playing it around there. It was just a, that was an amazing experience. Um. And obviously the, the, the Aussies love to play a, a very open brand of rugby with, with a lot of running rugby.

Shawn Ingle: And I found that particularly, I played 1, 1 1 season of shoot shield, um, for the, the wildfires. I moved over to Sydney for season during Covid and um, that was a very fast, uh, open brand of rugby that was seriously, seriously high quality. The Melbourne comp where I played most of my years, there was slightly. Uh, slower with bigger boys, lots of very, very large island lads running around.

Carl: Mm

Shawn Ingle: was the most physical comp I've taken. I think that's

Carl: Really

Shawn Ingle: for stepping up to the international stuff where the guys are slightly bigger than obviously what we paid Meade, but I've um, definitely faced it all before in Melbourne.

Carl: Yeah I was I was about about to ask that as well so obviously Stepping from a lot of people say there's a big gulf between [00:33:00] club and international rugby How did you obviously you've you played international for a little while now How how did you find that first the gap when you first jumped in Was it well actually I've I I'm I'm here I'm ready I'm fine Or Well fuck I've actually gotta do I've come a little bit behind Or how did how did it kind of feel when that first game got in in your bank

Shawn Ingle: I definitely

Carl: I

Shawn Ingle: the gap. Um, I, at the time was playing, um. University rugby with the Cambridge lads and we had sort of a,

Carl: Oh okay

Shawn Ingle: sport in terms of like of young boys that just come outta school. Um, and, and really done a whole lot from a rugby perspective, but were just talented lads.

Shawn Ingle: And then we had the guys of Lux, of Toby Flood, uh, and Matt Simmons running around like the Cambridge side as well. Uh, Tommy Costello, he played for Italy, I don't know how many times. Um,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: had a, a bit of a mixed bag there. And I mean, the. The quality of, of training and stuff [00:34:00] was pretty good there. But then you go into the international level and things just step up a bit. and I mean, I, I played some, some decently high level games before, um, that, that had had prepared me well from a club rugby perspective. And I had a chance to play against the Japanese Wolf Pack, uh, touring team when they toured Melbourne. Um, I played

Carl: Oh wow

Shawn Ingle: against them with um. Obviously the, the Japanese squad was pretty stacked at the time, but, um, we played with, uh, the likes of Atu and Jordan UI and Rob der were in my team that day.

Carl: Nice

Shawn Ingle: and that was sort of my first taste of, wow, this is like really high-paced, really intense, um, this is what it's like to play at that level.

Shawn Ingle: But then when we ran out against that Hong Kong side that were a pretty good outfit at the time,

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: was, was for my debut, it was another like, oh my gosh, this is just hit me that it's just way faster. the collisions were big. There was just no room for error. You make one small [00:35:00] mistake or your techniques are slightly off and you either get driven back five meters in the tackle or, um. You, you, you'll miss it. So it was definitely the, it was a bit of a shock. Um, and at first it was like, well, I'm, I'm, you know, I've been playing a little bit low. This is definitely a step up. But, um, the sort of hunger comes in. I think, I think I, I could be good enough to, to do this at a table, so I'm just gonna register opportunity and give it a practice. 

Carl: Yeah Brilliant How long did it take you to then sort of feel not I wouldn't say comfortable but that you you got yourself into a position that you knew what it what the game was and what you had your work ons from Where how long did that sort of take you Five games 10 games What was what's the usual time period that you thought

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, I mean I've only played cups now actually

Carl: oh

Shawn Ingle: for, for Germany. 'cause it was a, it was a bit of a pair in the middle where. Um, I, um, so I missed the rugby year championship last year, for example. Um,

Carl: yeah

Shawn Ingle: [00:36:00] played those first two games for, for Hong Kong and there was a bit of a gap global playing again this

Carl: yeah Okay

Shawn Ingle: Um, so yeah, it was actually, I feel like I. Like you said, I wouldn't sound comfortable, but I feel like after that first cap, uh, in

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: we then played the second one, uh, the same week. I think it was three or four days later, we had, we had two,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: against each other. Um, then I kind of had convinced myself that, okay, I can sort of, I can sort of do it at this level. Um, and then there onwards, obviously there was work ones I had to do, things are things I always needed to improve on. Um, but I think I'd given myself the confidence that I. I can have a go at that level. And then every time, obviously we play someone who's slightly better than anyone we played before, there's that tiny little flicker of doubt, like how, how the hazards gonna go. Um, but I think it's just, um, I've now got the, the inability I can have a crack at most levels.

Carl: What how why did you miss out on the Rugby Europe championships [00:37:00] last season Was it was it selection or were you just unavailable What was how did that cookie fall for you

Shawn Ingle: It was mostly actually a bit of an eligibility issue, um, because I, through my grandfather do qualify to play for,

Carl: Um

Shawn Ingle: but there was, um. There was an investigation by wood rugby. I think we'd maybe done some incorrect paperwork or something for one of the games and, um, maybe not followed the correct procedure in the eyes of wood rugby.

Shawn Ingle: So there was, um, there was something that was opened up from, from their side and it just took a really long time to go through the legal process to, to solve. Uh, and it did eventually get solved and, and my lit, my, uh, my name got cleared, but for a little while I was, uh, under the investigation.

Carl: It So um glad you uh glad you got your name cleared at least So that's uh that definitely helps So obviously that must have given you a little bit more of a hunger as well to think Actually I really wanna get back on this stage and prove after that investigation I'm actually here for a [00:38:00] reason as well

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for me it was pretty frustrating.

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: I, I'd made my debut pretty recently in Hong, and that was, uh, an amazing tour and we were keen to sort of build on that experience in the, in the rec, um, the following February. Then, it just came about that I wasn't able to, to play that year, so I, I missed out on a full year in sta rugby and, um, yeah, it was, it was frustrating and I was definitely up a bit of a fire inside me to, to want to do well this season.

Carl: Nice So as you said you were over it The Cambridge rugby as well How did how did your time go there cause you uh obviously we had James Shanahan on previously so he'd have been the coach So James James sh Shanna's has been on the on the pod previously and we were discussing recruitment of how that had to go cause he was just sort of he said I dunno what's turning up each year He said sometimes we we are going down [00:39:00] with a clipboard down the halls just trying to sign up Random as that might look like rugby players How did your time uh obviously under Shanna's go and how did how did your time at at the uh at Cambridge go when you were there Did you did you manage to win the win the cup and everything as well or

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, so we managed to win varsity, which was a pretty amazing experience. Doing last year actually played well. Um,

Carl: yeah I

Shawn Ingle: playing on the. Ground was pretty cool. Um, yeah, things around to up and was really good to, to get away even though we did everything we could to try and do that way. Um, we had, like I said, we had a pretty star studded team,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: the Oxford lads did as a star stu team.

Shawn Ingle: But yeah, we, um, we were, made it very difficult for ourselves in the day, but it was a phenomenal experience and a great party afterwards. The, um.

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: The whole Cambridge rugby experience is just so unique, uh, and not like anything else I've ever come across. 'cause [00:40:00] like you said, it's just such a, such a mixed bag and you never know what's gonna turn up. But, um, you know, just fortune that happened that we had, uh, a really good bunch of lads from all over the world, um, rock up that year. So it was just a, it was a great experience to meet, um, so many different people from, from all over the place. The, the actual year came, which was unbelievable too. Uh, and the rugby club was a big part of, um, me having such a good time there.

Shawn Ingle: It's just, uh, it's got a lot of history to it and, um, some, some really weird and archaic old traditions that that happened. Um, so it just was, was really, really unique and incredible time.

Carl: Yeah Brilliant Um yeah Shanna was saying that there was always seems to be a shortage of props as well cause not many people that go to Cambridge are usually got a shit diet and uh probably eat eating crap like the rest of us props So it was uh so you didn't get asked [00:41:00] the question to suddenly jump in the front row then

Shawn Ingle: No, thankfully not. I, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's, and that's also one, that's one of the unique things about it. I've never seen this before, where people get put on proper prop conversion programs when, from the beginning, uh, of the season, you'll rock up in September and a few, few people will be selected as. You've got the opportunity to be a prop this year and you might just play varsity if you go and drink, um, four gallons of milk a day and put on 30 kilograms you can up your As. and that was just bizarre. There were a couple boys, a couple of my mates ended up having to do that and, um,

Carl: Wow

Shawn Ingle: and played varsity matches as a result because that function needed.

Shawn Ingle: So, um, kudos to them for that. But yeah, putting on that much weight in, in a season, it's, yeah, not, not the easiest thing to do. It's big.

Carl: No And still being able to move as well and play a game afterwards That's yeah that's pretty impressive

Shawn Ingle: Yeah,

Carl: I

Shawn Ingle: absolutely.

Carl: So by the sounds of it you've also [00:42:00] don the pitch with a a fair few of the elite game Who's who's the best player you've ever had the opportunity to play with

Shawn Ingle: That's a good question.

Carl: I

Shawn Ingle: I think yeah, it's interesting 'cause like I said, I mean I played, I haven't played with that many superstars, but I had, um, I had a few cool experiences when I was in Australia and that, particularly that one game against. The Japanese on the back side, we, we had a pretty decent side that at the time were actually guys that were in the Rebels development, um, set up or were coming back from injury, but then went on to, to do pretty, pretty cool things. Um, and I. I'd say, and I think, uh, the likes of Toby Flood would be pretty sad of me saying, no, it's not gonna be him. Because playing with him was also an amazing experience. But he was, uh, and don't, don't tell him I said this, maybe just slightly past his prior [00:43:00] because at Cambridge. Um, but uh, when I, yeah, playing with he only took liked, it was pretty cool when I. When I was in Melbourne, he, at the time was, like I said, in, in the Rebels development squad, but always a very

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: And I played with both him and his brother, um, at, at the, at the time. And we always used to face up against each other in the deal shield for the Melbourne competition. so to see him then, take off like a rocket ship when he moved to to Scotland and then do so well

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: It's been awesome towards his progress.

Carl: Uh who's who's probably the best player that you've played with that's not made the level that they should have reached I

Shawn Ingle: I'd say at school boy level, I was, I played with a couple guys that came over from, um, Zimbabwe and came to my school and were just really good lads and, and amazing intense [00:44:00] plate. Um, and in particular we had this one bloke on the wing. Um, I. Hinky I don't know, like 10 flat, a hundred meter runner, like really big, stronger and like

Carl: Wow

Shawn Ingle: a million tries for us every year. Um, and he went over to the States and dabbled in American football and for seven stuff there. And um, I

Carl: Oh wow

Shawn Ingle: a guitar playing rugby seven round. But, um, I definitely expected, I don't know if he was really serious about rugby, but he was just the most phenomen. And, uh, it was, yeah, a pleasure running around.

Carl: So it it and obviously some people have like I've asked that question to a few now and a lot of people have Said some people are just happy with what they've got in front of them They they've got no aspiration to go any further They're happy with the how they're playing rugby and that they get to play rugby with their mates and that's that But some people look at em from outside in You think you could [00:45:00] have gone like beyond and on and on So that's quite interesting that um what's the plan then Obviously Shawn, as you said you're 26 Is there any plans to try and make rugby Professionally or is that something that you you obviously you're happy with your job role at the minute We're not trying to stitch you up to your bosses and everything like that But is is that something that you've always wondered Is that call gonna come now that you've got a national rugby under your belt Is it on that C you think is any maybe it's a revelation Has anyone called it and you're gonna call it out now and say yeah I've been uh I've been approached or

Shawn Ingle: I don't think I'll, uh, ever close the door completely, but, um, I'm pretty, I'm pretty satisfied with where I'm at. The work I'm doing, I feel like I'm really enjoying that and being able to play international rugby for me, scratching the itch, um,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: as a youngster and like growing up, even, even two, three years ago, I was the number [00:46:00] one aim and aspiration for me was to find, see how far I could go with rugby. I, I would've loved to have played, um, some professional rugby. And that was sort of, it was definitely a, a, a major goal of mine. Um. I feel like I'm, I'm fairly satisfied. I think if, if, if that opportunity came knocking, I would definitely grab it. I think, um, it's still something I think would be an amazing thing to do, but, um, I think where I, where I'm at with, with things I, I'm really enjoying, um, my rugby being able to play.

Shawn Ingle: Uh, for Germany. For me, like I said, it's has really been an amazing experience and something that has, it's something I never thought I'd do is play international rugby and being able to

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: it's just been. Uh, to me it's been a big bucket list tick 

Carl: Yeah it's pretty it's pretty epic to as you say just fly out play in the Rugby Europe championships fly back in go play for maiden net play play that level as well And obviously what [00:47:00] your parents being able to watch your On live stream at the minute hopefully live next season after after sort of the setback of whether you were eligible or not et cetera as well Was was was is is just a testament to to what grassroots and tier two rugby seems to be at the minute You get setback one minute and next minute you're you've played a full tournament as well so what's your Personal aspirations then in for Germany for obviously for the next E the next European championships is have have you guys already sort of discussed where you expect to put yourselves back to Is there a target that you guys are already aspiring to as well I

Shawn Ingle: I think as a unit we haven't sort of targeted a specific position. Um, but I think there's a gen as a general consensus. We, we'd obviously love to do better year. Um, I

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: for me, um, and just for Germany in general, I think there's a, there's a lot of potential, uh, as a country and

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: a, [00:48:00] it's a, it's a strong country with a lot of sporting history and rugby's not the biggest sport around, but um, those that do like their rugby, they're really very passionate and are a great community.

Shawn Ingle: So I'd love to see the grain grow bigger there. Um, as a national team, it, it obviously helps if, if we're doing fairly well for the, the game for everyone in the community.

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: so yeah, we definitely targeting the, the middle of the, the rugby year, um, championship pack and, uh, we'll see. We'll see how far we can climb, but um, yeah, we'd love to do better than this year.

Carl: Because the the sevens are doing pretty well They just managed to sort of get through on the on the on the next because obviously that's all just been reshuffled as well cause world rugby don't like making anything easy or anything possible for people to understand for too long So they've managed to get promoted to the Is it division two of the seven Super series or whatever it's been called now [00:49:00] So that's a that's that's pretty pretty an epic step up as well There's a big aspirations from I met a few of them as well at the London City Sevens cause they put the women's and the men's into the into the same tournament and they did look out at water at all They looked really impressive They looked pretty well drilled and yeah that is is Uh a lot of the tier two nations are also sort of banking on sevens being a development ground a little bit And do you think that's where Germany uh sort of targeting as well at the minute while they sort of restructured the fifteens to an extent

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, I mean, I think the, it, it's awesome to see done so well. Um, it's been a, it's been several years now. In the past, I'd say five or six years, they were knocking on the door of the board series and just

Carl: Hmm

Shawn Ingle: lost that one last relegation playoff or promotion playoff. Um, and it's, it's great to see that they've finally been able to, to win one.

Shawn Ingle: And, and I'm really happy to see all the boys are gonna be, you know, [00:50:00] knocking around of that sevens division two and I think makes the experience, um, for them and not. I also like to see when we send our squad to, to s around the UK and elsewhere in Europe to, to flood the talent. 'Cause there's some really exciting players coming through that, that, you know, hopefully might even make the switch over and, and come into the, the fifteens.

Shawn Ingle: Uh, from a back, from a background perspective. Um,

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: it definitely is a, a proven ground and it, it's proven to be that way for, for other countries. If you look at South Africa and the puts box, um, and, and the

Carl: Yeah

Shawn Ingle: um, and, and how some of them have gone on to be all blacks. It, it's, it's a proven model and it can't work that way quite well. Um, so it would be, it's great to see that it's doing well. Uh, it's, it'd be great to see if some of those guys can also go on in and do create fairly well in the, in the 15 setup. Um. Two. So I think it's, it's quite an exciting space to, to watch and, and really happy to see that we we're doing.

Carl: Shawn, I think we've pretty [00:51:00] much covered most of it and I'm sure we could probably continue for a lot longer Uh hopefully we can Get to actually meet in person at the next Europe Rugby Europe championships I know there was hopeful that it was gonna happen this year but didn't quite work out for it But Shawn, I just just wanna say thank you for coming on mate and obviously highlighting the the tier two nations as well the Rugby Europe Championships your journey and obviously maiden Ed Rugby Club Where where they've been and where you've where you've been is It's by the sounds of it you've got a pretty epic story and we've we've managed to cover it and I really appreciate you coming on mate as well

Shawn Ingle: Yeah, no worries at all. Thanks so much. Mean, it's been, it's been.

Carl: So everyone thank you so much for joining us I hope you really enjoyed Shawn's story through uh rugby Europe Championships Obviously Shawnss. Australia South Africa Cambridge Rugby I think we've pretty much covered everything as well So I know this one has managed to [00:52:00] jump up the list cause I fucked up the recording from the rugby Roots episode So this is now gonna jump forward a little bit and now next week we are actually gonna do a rugby roots rep episode So for those that have wanted to subscribe follow like comment do all of that so you can make sure you keep up to all up to date with all our current Guests episodes and everything like that and thank you for joining us Cheers and goodbye