Episode 16 - The Havant RFC Interview - Coach Oz & Will Knight open the door to Over the Hill

Will Knight and Lewis Osborne discuss their rugby journeys and the resurgence of Havant Rugby Club. They talk about the challenges they faced and the steps they took to rebuild the club and improve on the field. They highlight the importance of building a strong team culture and values, as well as the impact of having a high-quality artificial pitch. They also discuss the club's recruitment strategy and their ambitions for the future, both on and off the pitch. The conversation with Will and Oz from Havant Rugby Club focused on various topics, including the club's success, coaching strategies, player development, and the one-club mentality. They discussed the importance of having good people in the right positions and making strategic improvements. The coaches emphasized the significance of creating a positive and supportive environment for players to thrive. They also highlighted the role of self-reflection and continuous improvement in their coaching approach. The conversation concluded with a discussion about the club's facilities and the unity among different teams within the club.

Transcript

Carl (00:12)
Hello and welcome to Rugby Through the Leagues podcast. We want to keep shining a light on rugby that is not shown in the mainstream media. I'm and thanks for joining us on the next installment of Rugby Through the Leagues podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to the pod. Keep in touch with us on our social media platforms. It's been growing recently, a lot of interaction. So it's been great to get everyone involved. As I keep mentioning in the last few weeks, we're out and about.

I've been traveling around. As you can probably see, I look a bit like Harry Potter in a minute, sat next to a cupboard in the most recent destination. For those who followed us on socials, I managed to have a run out for a charity game at the weekend. That's why I've taken a little while to record the intros for this. It's been busy, hit the social pretty hard and probably took a little while to recover more than I'd hoped. But had a great weekend back down

Gosport rugby club,

playing for Purple Cobras against Ripples of Compassion, two amazing, amazing charities with trying to raise an amazing amount of awareness for different, different things. And what a great turnout. Atmosphere was brilliant. Social was brilliant. Game was quality. Some really good players that made it down. A lot of feedback from people as well about the pod. So over the next few weeks, there's going to be a few things hopefully lined up and...

ready for the next round of recording. So it's really good to actually get back out and speak to people out and about. This week, we've finally managed to get that door fully open at Havant. So we've managed to get Lewis Osborne and Will Knight on. We managed to sit them both down. So the first time that I've managed to actually interview two people at the same time, looking at the edit, I don't think I fucked it up. So it should be pretty decent. Really good.

informative chat about what they've done, how they brought the no dickheads policy into driving a team forward in quite a hard region to resource from outside because you don't have many teams, premiership teams to lean on as well. So it's a really, really good chat about a club that's really pulling up trees in a minute as well. I know we've interviewed them and we had Sean Shepp's on the other day as well.

Carl (02:28)
Right, well, we've finally managed to get Havant Rugby Club on. We've talked about them enough times recently, but we've now managed to get two integral parts of the club moving forward. So we've got Will Knight and Lewis Osborne on. Gents, thank you so much for your time. This is the first time that I've actually had to.

interview two at the same time. So let's see how that goes and see how much I can probably fuck that up. But let's hope it's not too bad gents. So gents, take it in turns. Will, if you want to go first, do a bit of an intro, do your rugby journey where you've been and then Oz, if you can jump in afterwards, mate, that'd be really appreciated.

Oz (02:57)
Hehehehehe.

Will (02:58)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Oz (03:12)
Thank you.

Will (03:12)
Yeah sure. So yeah rugby journey started, at Havant So I've been at the club for 50 odd years. Started as a six, seven year old on the first day that mini rugby started at the club and then played my way all the way through the teams like many other young kids at the time and then went off to London for four years trained to become a PE teacher at what was West London Institute or Borough Road College as it was in those days and played some really good rugby.

really good rugby up there as well and then came back down to the area to work my first job and rejoined Havant in 1988 just in the second year of the leagues. A couple years later took over as captain for a few years and we had a pretty spectacular time if I'm being honest we went through

up to sort of level three in the pyramid and then we're knocking on the door of level two. In fact, we missed out in the very last game of the season by one point in getting promotion to what would now be the championship. So that's the sort of highest point the club have been at. And then like many dads, I was sort of a bit involved with my kids rugby, got dragged back into the club.

As one of my sons or my oldest son went into the academy age and I stayed with the academy for a few years building that up and then got asked if I would take over the first team and Been doing that now for the last 13 or so seasons and obviously it's been a bit of a journey from quite a low point to to promotion back to to sort of level four this year. So yeah, it's been a

really enjoyable time and still an enjoyable time but yeah that's my journey I've been Havant for a long time.

Carl (04:55)
Yeah, that's amazing. So you've pretty much gone full circle with the club then, Will. You've lived and breathed everything apart from maybe four years in the smoke.

Will (05:04)
Yeah, I mean even then I was still very involved, you know, a big part of it coming back, playing at holidays and things like that. So yeah, it has been a big part of my life, definitely.

Carl (05:13)
Go on, let's get your journey, mate.

Oz (05:16)
so I'm slightly younger than Will, so my rugby doesn't start quite so early. I didn't really pick up rugby ball until I was sort of 14, 13 14. Played a lot of different sports around that. Picked up in school and never looked back really. So started in school and then my first club, and only club really, has been Havant since about 14, 15. Been in and around there.

went through the ages, went off to uni at Chi so just down the road, stayed there in the club. And I've got opportunities around sort of 17, 18 to play with the seniors set up. I think they're at the old Nat 3 then, so almost where we are now, I guess. Just played a few games there. Yeah, loved it, kept at it, but I've got a few quite significant injuries.

Just towards the tail end of uni, so ACL and things like that, and then came back from that, came back into it, did that again. And then in one of my last games, did a meniscus, and that was pretty much all she wrote for playing side. No, not ideal, and I think Will wasn't there for the first one, he was definitely there for the second and third. Mess up. But Will, and...

Carl (06:23)
No, there was a -

Ha ha ha ha.

Oz (06:38)
Yes, and then coaching was like, how do I keep involved in rugby? It was sort of already a big part and I could really walk away at that time. So it was, it it what opportunities there were around coaching. So went into that, started off with the ladies and, and worked with the free threes a side at the time, very social side at the time with the A15 and the fair team and then worked my way through. And then.

Carl (06:52)
Okay.

Oz (07:04)
The journey continued through to sort of Dolphins second team, working with that and a few good coaches there, really good coaches through there. And then opportunity sort of came up to work alongside Will for the last few years now. I can't really give it a number, I don't think. And yeah, here we are. So we're about a point now.

Will (07:24)
Too many.

Carl (07:26)
Amazing. So I'm obviously a Gosport boy, I've been. I know it's a disability for most. So we've kind of looked at the road at ULOT and obviously always looked down to an extent, but it's kind of a case of can't ignore what you boys have done recently. And what's been the catalyst for your resurgence at Havant? Because obviously there was quite a low point, as you mentioned, that you guys kind of fell off the perch and...

Oz (07:34)
god.

Carl (07:55)
then you've now put the right bits in place over maybe the last five, six years. Well, is that fair to say?

Will (08:03)
Yeah, I think it goes back further than that actually. I think, you know, the catalyst, I always talk about the catalyst was almost that first season. We got asked, you know, I I asked to come and get involved. I got another coach involved, a guy called called Mark Deller who was director of rugby at the Navy. And we sort of turned up to the first training session and there were eight players there.

Carl (08:14)
Bye.

Will (08:30)
I think at that point, we sort of realised, Christ, what have we taken on here? Because, you know, the eight players were some of the colts that I've been working with. You know, people like Oz and a few of the other guys that have played ones, very few of them left. Number of players that have been in the second, third team. And we were looking down the barrel of a national three season, you know, and...

Carl (08:36)
Yeah.

cheese.

Will (08:55)
So we sort of started from there and to be honest, we had a pretty horrible season, got absolutely stuffed most weeks. I think we shipped over a thousand points. But at the end of that season, we sort of turned around to the lads in the changing room and said, well, what do you want to do? We can all disappear for a few months and enjoy the summer and then come back and see what happens next season. Or we can recognize that we need to do something now and...

Carl (09:04)
Yeah.

Will (09:21)
Two weeks later, the boys started training. And, you know, in terms of catalyst points along the journey, I think that was one of them because there was a recognition from that group that they needed to improve. From there, then, obviously, we also recognized that we need to rebuild certain bits of the club. And I think that in amongst the journey that the club had had when they'd been bringing a lot of players in from overseas and...

Carl (09:24)
Nice.

Will (09:48)
perhaps, you know, very much a wider net to try and stay at the level they were at. What had also suffered was the culture and the ethos of the club. And so some of the things that you would expect to see on a Saturday in a rugby club weren't happening. So part of the journey was not just about rebuilding the club, rebuilding the team and getting better results on the pitch. It was about rebuilding the club and getting that.

Carl (09:59)
Hmm.

Will (10:16)
That enjoyment back to playing for your local rugby club. We've had a pretty strict set of rules since we started We we have a very strong set of values that we stick to You know straight out of the All Blacks, you know Kind of legacy rulebook no dickheads and and you know, and I don't say that lightly as just a sort of throw a line It's really important to the players that are part of what we do That we don't get

people coming into the environment that are going to make a negative impact there. So if you don't fit and you know, that's not that's not a personal criticism of an individual. But if you don't fit with what we're trying to do and you don't sort of make an effort to become part of the club, then there probably isn't a place for you in the club. And that's you know, and I would say conversely, I'd say we're probably one of the most welcoming rugby clubs you'll ever come across.

Carl (11:12)
Yeah.

Will (11:13)
expect a little bit from the players as well. I think the guys that have come across and you'll know some of the guys that come across from from Gosport have become an integral part of what we're doing and they you know I think they would tell you that's a really important part of who we are. So yeah I don't know there's a single catalyst there's been points along the journey but certainly the last three or four five years we've been slowly

improving slowly improving on the field. The group that we started with are of an age now where they are leaders in their own right and need less leading from from the sideline and more. They have a greater ability to to read and understand and work their way through games and you know we've constantly changed and brought in new new blood into the coaching setup. You know, Oz has been a absolute prime example of that.

without doubt has created the most feared pack at our level for the last couple of years and those sorts of things have made a difference because if we stand still we go backwards. Difficult to put my finger on a single catalyst point but I think there's been lots of them over that journey.

Oz (12:26)
Yeah, it's sort of summed up pretty well. There's gotta be moments over that time where it could have gone really, really bad or decisions could have been made would have been lighthearted actually, but they were quite well thought out and quite well sort of strategic planning and long -term goals are really important. So yeah, I think it's really easy to say, like you say, like from outside looking in five years of like,

Carl (12:34)
Yeah.

Oz (12:54)
rise I guess as a team but the journey as of such it's been a long long slog for some people in that not even on the field but the guys around it there's a lot of people that have bought in for that amount of time and have really put a lot of hours and dedication into it and making real sort of conscious decisions with like a plan in mind and that's been really sort of evident once I was able to sort of see the outside of it.

As opposed to just what was on the field, it was really clear that there was a lot of good people around the club, not just the rugby doers, but actually around it, they were just sort of integral to what we were doing and the right people in the right spots. That was the main thing.

Carl (13:36)
Yeah, brilliant. So as he said, obviously, a few Gosport boys went over the hill. So Sean, Sean Sheps was on the other day. So I've actually recorded Sean, a few pods, sort of a couple of the pods before you as well. So I was talking to him because when I played with him at Gosport, I'd still put him up there as probably one of the best players I ever had the privilege to play with. And it's great to see him go and push on and be able to put his mark down at a level where he is now because...

He's an exceptional player and he talks about what you guys have done is doing, setting everything up right. So he said that's put him in the best position to be able to put his best foot forward on the rugby pitch as well. We also did discuss the, obviously from a lot of people's viewpoint from outside of Havant as other players at different clubs, your...

new pitch. Do you think that was an integral catalyst as well Will? Was that, is that fair to say because the pitch is before with dog shit. Is that fair at best? Yeah the garden fields, yeah that's it. The Leigh Park field you mean, yeah.

Oz (14:46)
Yeah.

Will (14:47)
The golden fields of heaven, how day!

Oz (14:52)
laced with parts of cars and things. Yes.

Will (14:52)
It might have got slightly better on the old days. Look, I think the rugby 365 pitch has been transformational as far as I'm concerned. Interestingly, I was talking to Paul Hodgson once up at London Irish and when they just moved into their new facilities and I said to him, what's made the biggest difference?

and he pointed at their artificial pitch and he said, without doubt, it's been transformational. And you know, the thing is, it just improves the quality of everything you're doing, the quality of your training, the quality and pace at which you can train all the time. You know, yeah, it certainly supports the style of rugby that we want to play, but I think the other thing is, is that it creates a kind of no excuses culture when you're training.

You know, you can't look around and go, well you can say it's freezing cold, but you can't say it's too wet or it's the pitch or any of those things. Those excuses disappear and you know, it does make training a real pleasure. And I think, you know, the boys certainly that played on it a lot now actually prefer playing on an artificial surface.

Carl (15:54)
pitch is frozen and all that sort of gubbins that comes alongside it, yeah.

Will (16:12)
I mean if we could plan, you know, twigging them every week then they'd probably get used to that but it does give you a consistency and a quality of surface that at our level we're probably not going to get, you know, on a grass pitch. So yeah, it's been an amazing addition for us.

Carl (16:29)
And also, have you noticed that as well? Probably obviously being part of both parts of that, being able to play on the muddy fields of Leigh Park to the Astro.

Oz (16:38)
Yeah, yeah, we don't necessarily have to avoid parts of cars that might be parked in the middle of fields and things like that. And we can't train on this part of the field because there's not, there's just water. So like now it's like, there's no excuse for seeing it spot on. It's on no matter what, rain or shine. And it can be very cold as you know. But yeah, it's...

Carl (16:45)
Set fire to.

Ha ha.

Oz (17:05)
It's huge. It's allowed us to do everything as much as we can and as long as we need to it's been pretty good.

Carl (17:14)
Has it made it easier to, as you said, well, put your stamp on the brand of rugby you want to play because you're not having to adapt to every other weather condition that's, this is how we want to play. And then you've got to just, a lot of players have always played on grass. So you just got to adapt that slightly backwards, whereas you can be on a, on the front foot by using a 4G pitch.

Will (17:36)
Yeah, certainly think for us at home, you know, there is a bit of an advantage on playing on it all the time and training on it all the time There's no doubt about it I you know, I would say 10 10 to 15 percent faster than the grass pitch and that I mean that has some coaching challenges because Sometimes that means that your your timing and things like that when you go on to grass changes and you have to adapt to that

and particularly when it gets wet and muddy and you're playing one week in the middle of December on a pitch which is equally as fast as it is on the first day of September and then you're playing the following week on a bit of a quagmire So yeah there are some challenges with that and we probably need to go and train on the back pitches a little bit more to just be more used to the wet weather.

But no, I mean, you know, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages so significantly. And you know, it's like the strength and conditioning work that we're doing and throughout the season to have, you know, what is effectively a perfect running track under your feet all the time makes a difference and the players have confidence from that. So yeah, it's amazing. It's been a real asset to the club. And, you know, obviously alongside all the other...

to infrastructure changes that have been put in at the club over the last few years. It does make it a pretty amazing place to be able to come and play your rugby.

Carl (19:05)
No, it's quite, so is there ways that you try to sort of train for those differences, where as you said, it might be sort of 15 % speed difference and stuff, is that, do you dip the ball in a bucket of water before you chuck it in the middle, is there ways that you sort of try to play it without having to go onto the back pitches, or do you just go through the drills and let the lads just adapt on the day?

Will (19:30)
No, I think, yeah, I think we try and play the same style and for the most part, you know, to be fair, we've been pretty lucky over the last couple of seasons. We haven't had to play in any proper Cogmeiers, but there is, you know, there is an element of the difference that, you know, you can see when you play on the grass and sometimes it does take a little bit of time for the players to readjust to that.

but they're good players and they've got a lot of experience playing on grass so it's not something that really throws them too much but it is a consideration I would say.

Carl (20:11)
got to remember to bring their studs, rather than playing their moldies on the 4G.

Oz (20:15)
I don't know.

Will (20:16)
 got to stop those props trying to play in mouldies

Oz (20:19)
Yes.

Carl (20:20)
Props still running around on the 4G's with 22 mils.

Oz (20:24)
Yeah, we've got a couple of those turn up with moldies and go yeah

Carl (20:29)
So what is the vision? Where's the vision for Havant? Where's it going? What's the league ambition for next year? Is this sort of where you think the ceiling is? Or is it a case of, no, we're going to go up, we've got to stabilize, figure out where we're at, and then we're really pushing on? Or is that kind of an unknown at the minute, obviously, with the sustainability and making sure the longevity of the club's safe first?

Will (20:58)
Do you want to go first Oz?

Oz (20:59)
Yeah, I think we're always striving to go more or to get more out of us as coaches and us as a club and us as them as players. I don't think we've reached our limit. I wouldn't say as a club we've got that limit. I don't think it's there. Personally, I believe that over the time that we've been working together, we've added little bits here and there.

I think in the conversations we've had for off season and then during last season about what we could do coming season, if we get those right, I don't think we're going to be the ones that are going to be saying, I personally don't think we'll be the ones that are saying, well what if we fall down again? I think we're going to be a little bit more comfortable and I really think over the next couple of years we can make another push, but it comes down to those little details again.

And I'm not sitting here saying that I think in two years we're going up and that it's coming home type stuff. But what I'm saying is there's a good group of lads there that are dedicated and there is a group of lads that have that will to sort of get it right. And I think if we work well enough to get the off -field stuff right as well. I think we're in a good place. I don't think we're at our limit. I don't think for that at all. I think there's a lot more to come from this group.

and the up and coming guys that might be coming in or coming up. I think there's a lot of scope for what we can do as a club. So, yeah, it's exciting times. I think there's a lot of good things that have happened so far, but I think there's still more to come.

Carl (22:39)
Yeah, brilliant. With that then, what's the recruitment? Obviously, as you said, there's no dickhead policy. Obviously, being probably the highest Hampshire club, obviously the closest, obviously being Worthing with a lot of lads that used to look up to that. Where's your recruit? Are you targeting people that are coming moving into the area or have you got a link with a...

Premiership club now or is there, how's that sort of recruitment policy or in the case of lads, what you've done last season, you've fully earned exactly where we're going to be. We might just have to put a bit more depth to the squad.

Will (23:21)
Yeah, I think there's well, it's a bit of all of that, if I'm being honest. So, you know, as you know from Gosport, as we know from Havant, one of the biggest challenges with any club on the South Coast or on any coast is that 180 degrees of your recruitment areas, water. So you are limited, you are at the end of a train line. So that is a challenge in itself.

there's a lot of rugby between us and the next sort of big area of rugby talent if you like. If you're going up towards London then there's a lot of rugby clubs on that path up there. So we're always competing with that. We're competing with guys that are coming in with a bit of cash to throw around at levels lower than us and we're competing with Worthing certainly on the same level as us just up the road. But what we're...

Having spoken to or had some conversations with some guys that sort of have gone up last year and then come back down, some of the things that they've talked about is the need to ensure depth rather than go out after the superstar player. I'm not saying we don't want a superstar player. If they arrive and we can convince them they want to play for Howard, then fantastic. But where I think some clubs have found...

themselves come in unstuck is that the next league up from where we've been is incredibly intritional. Yeah, it's that. And it's an eight -game shift from the beginning of the season, so you don't get a break until eight games in. And if you haven't got depth, then you can start to come unstuck very, very quickly. So I think a part of our sort of recruitment policy is to try to build that depth.

Carl (24:49)
Because you've got like 26 games next season, that's a lot. That's a hard shift as well, that, isn't it, Christ?

Will (25:10)
We've approached some players, we've been approached by more players than we've approached, which is nice. We're obviously quite well set in terms of the Navy set up and where we are now and where we are in the league structure. I think that makes us a more attractive club for potential Navy squad players.

be playing at we'd like to get some you know some more traction with the guys over at Thorny I mean there's 4 ,000 troops over there there's there's some good good rugby players in amongst that and not too many of them are coming to play the rugby at Havan at the moment so there's there's bits like that we're building our links continuously with the universities in the area and you know and you just don't know

who's going to come to university in the area. So all of those things are areas which we need to keep working at. And of course, you know, there are some very, very good rugby players in the local clubs around us. And that's something that, you know, we want to be an attractive proposition for them to want to come and perhaps, you know, push themselves a little bit more than they can where they are, take themselves out of their comfort zone.

The fact that our second team is playing at the same level as the vast majority of the first teams in the county means that you can come to us, you can be in the second team playing as good a level as anybody, but with the opportunity, if you're doing well to play Nat2 Rugby. So yeah, I would never say it's not a challenge because I think it's a real challenge. We're not a club that has the kind of...

time to finances to throw it, you know, the problem that some do. And so we have to find other ways of making things work. But I do think also, you know, going back to sort of what is our vision for this season, I think being able to consolidate in this league is hugely important to go up and then come straight back down again is, you know, would be really damaging. So I think I think we will have to be a little bit more strategic about our

our games this year and look at the games that we believe maybe target games. I think there will very quickly emerge some of the teams who, you know, who if everything you're hearing is right, have recruited incredibly well and are going to maybe, maybe be a little bit, you know, untouchable for some of us. And maybe those aren't the games we're targeting, but we're certainly confident that we can target.

games at home and then certainly some of those away games and get enough to make sure that we're still in the league for the following season. I think that's really, really important for us.

Carl (28:03)
do what the South Africans have done in the URC then Will just pick and choose whether you travel away.

Will (28:08)
Now we'll always travel away. We'll take eight different buses to get there.

Oz (28:08)
Yeah.

Carl (28:10)
 it. So obviously, have you guys got links with the Prem Club or is the main focus at the minute tapping into the Navy and the universities? Is that probably the easier target than trying to sort of, because Quins have obviously got a big pool of teams to go and support that are in the area. Obviously losing Irish and stuff.

Kind of isolated down there, obviously anyone sort of in that Hampshire belt, haven't we?

Will (28:44)
Yeah, no, I think you're right. I mean, I think the Irish connection was quite strong with the club. We've got a lot of players who are playing in our first 15 squad who have been Irish Academy players over the years and or contracted players and have come back. We've not ever and like no clubs in Hampshire particularly have got a relationship with with Quins So.

Carl (28:49)
Yeah.

Will (29:08)
whether that's something that we can build. I don't know. And I know against some of the clubs that we'll be playing against, that does put us as a slight disadvantage. But I'm also very aware of some of the challenges that come with working with Prem clubs and particularly if they want to place Academy players, which probably is right with you because then...

You know, they also pull those Academy players out quite quickly as well as putting them in and then, you know, you've got to manage all of that. But certainly those are things that I'm sure we will be investigating more. But as you say, without the Irish League there, there's a bit of a void for clubs on this side until it, I think the next from what I'm hearing is Bath is now going to be picking up the Academy program that was, you know, that was perhaps...

one that the Irish were running. So you know let's see what happens.

Carl (30:05)
That's even closer than we were, wasn't it? Christ. What? God, it's bad enough traveling in a bath as it is. Jesus Christ, that's...

Will (30:08)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

We've had a couple of boys come in from one of our young lads from Gloucester Academy is doing very well for us.

Carl (30:19)
Yeah, they've got the obviously Gloucester you've got the Hartbury stuff up there, ain't you? So the lads probably, it's easier for that to pop away. I'm sure mommy and daddy can probably pick them up and stuff. But it's, it's, Bath's a lick for that to then be, is that being brought on by RFU or is that just Bath have put their hand up and said?

Will (30:37)
 I heard the other day that, you know, they were potentially there was another link going there, but, you know, until something's written down and it's clear that we'll see. But, you know, we've got to concentrate on developing our own players. We've got to concentrate on continuing to bring players back to the club. A big part of our success has been that we've, you know, club Havants a club that the players that have been here.

I say this to a man from Gosport, but they very rarely leave. And a lot of our players are players that have played mini junior rugby, they've gone away, they've played a better standard of rugby, and then they've come back to the club and we'll tell you that they're playing some of the most enjoyable.

stuff that they've played because and a big part of it is it's with guys they grow up with you know they they've known these guys all their lives and suddenly they're back with their mates playing competitive rugby and having some success out there so yeah that's a big part of what we've done as well.

Carl (31:38)
That's brilliant.

the club have got ambitions on the pitch. What's the ambitions off the pitch? Obviously you've got the stands, you've obviously properly set up internally, you've got other little bits of work. Is there bigger plans or does that all depend on the success on the pitch? Or is there still big plans off the pitch to carry on growing?

the amenities around it to make sure that you bring the revenue in the club and make that as sustainable as possible.

Will (32:06)
I think sustainable is exactly the right word. I think the club perhaps got itself into a bit of a hole a few years ago when as I said before there was a lot of overseas players coming over, some of those people were being paid quite a lot of money to play rugby and the club are very wary of going down that pathway.

Oz (32:24)
Thank you.

Will (32:32)
and letting anything get out of control. So I think that it's really important that the club is sustainable. That's the business side, that's the developing the facilities, the function rooms. We're one of the few places in this area that you can sit down 200 plus people for a wedding. So those sorts of things are really important. The partnership with the nursery that are now at the club.

Carl (33:01)
Okay.

Will (33:01)
obviously feeds some money into the club as well. And then the club have continued to build facilities. So we have an absolutely top class gym now at the club, which is a peak, a perk for the players. You know, you're a member of the club, then you've got access to that gym 24 hours a day.

Carl (33:14)
Yeah, I've seen that on your Instagram. It looks mustard.

Yeah.

Will (33:27)
So yeah, continuing to build the facilities is important, but keeping a sustainable model that feeds the rugby means that the club will be there in 150 years time is really important as well.

Carl (33:44)
Yeah, Oz, obviously you've been through the sort of through the senior set up and now into the coaching level. Have you, obviously Will's been there forever, but have you noticed the way that the club's sort of changed off the field as well to make it more marketable and accessible to more?

Oz (34:04)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely the first the obvious one well I would say the obvious one but the one you just talked about the gym was that was that was a shed which was Yeah That was a space that we just casually I think asked the council said do you mind if we borrow this and And they were like, yeah if you want and then we threw a few weights in there and then

Carl (34:15)
I think Gosport have got the not down shit that's still in the corner of the car park.

Yeah.

Oz (34:33)
That definitely didn't snowball. That was a long process of real hard determination from the club and also the players. The players were sort of integral to that whole thing coming together along with a lot of commitment from really good people around the club that were able to do the work and the jobs that sort of, you don't realise that you need a specialist to do that. And then when they come in and say, I can do that.

It's a big, big club effort. And so you've got the gym, which has been like, been massive. I don't tend to visit as much as other players and coaches might do, but it's a, I've heard it's lovely in there. but, a lot of that stuff in there, it's come from within and that's been a really good part. And then you've got the club house as a whole, aside from the pitch, which we are really sort of lucky to have in many ways. And we, we took a

sort of gamble on it if that's the right word and it's sort of benefited us but the club house has sort of transformed in many ways and I think the team that have been doing that and that sort of planning around it has been really sort of again it's another string to our bow it's something that we can offer that a lot of other clubs in our community can't and I'd say we're lucky but actually there's a lot of work that's gone into it so it's not down to luck it's a lot of good people a lot of good decisions.

Carl (35:58)
It's all been calculated, but you've made the right gambles at the right time as a club and it's paid off.

Oz (36:06)
Yeah, there's opportunities out there and if you don't ask people then you won't get sometimes. And like I said, there's some good people I've put their roles and skills out there and said we can do this, we can do that. And there's a lot of change, yeah, definitely a lot of change. Little things like there was a tennis court next to us.

So we asked the question, can we make it into a car park? Now you've got more facility for people to come and watch and you'll find that the footfall within the club has increased as well. So then just little things like that, they all add up. So when you say to a player, what do you think of this? It's not your bog standard. I wouldn't say bog standard, but every club's got their sort of niche and their sort of, their X factor, but it's really hard to...

Carl (36:40)
Yeah.

Oz (36:58)
aside from my rugby ability at the moment or rugby sort of output, our X -Factor is quite big and there's quite a lot of stuff that you can sort of hang out on. Whatever sort of floats your boat, if that's what you want your rugby club to look like. We've got the social side, we've got the performance side, we've got the rugby stuff and yeah, it's a massive amount of change. It's pretty unrecognisable in some ways.

Carl (37:22)
Yeah, because when I was speaking to Shepp, he basically said, you guys are effectively professional, apart from the wheelbarrow as a cash that end up in his bank each month. But he said everything else, he literally doesn't have to do anything. He turns up with his boots and you guys have got everything nailed, everything's done, everything they want. He was saying that you guys have managed to sort out S &C coaches apart from the uni or something. So you've got everything done. So.

Oz (37:33)
Yeah, yeah.

Carl (37:50)
You've literally got everything there. You've got the platform and that, as you said, that doesn't happen overnight. And there are a lot of decisions that have probably been made at the right time by the right people. And as you said, obviously, if you've come through the seniors as well, that being accessible and everyone being able to use that as a club together rather than, no, that's the ones, Jim. That's the twos. The twos can use that and then the threes.

there's the clubhouse. There's the accessibility to the whole club and I think, yeah, fair play. It's definitely done something right over there.

Oz (38:20)
Nah.

Yeah, it's just to sort of bring out that sort of small P professionalism thing that's been those little things that we've been adding along. Asking the right people at the right time, getting the responses we kind of needed and then sort of running with it. And there's, within the coaching team, there's some really good guys in there that are able to sort of ask those questions and pull people in. And we've had some really good.

actually very excellent people come in to help and do the rest of the scene who've gone on to other things and it's something to put us on their CV and to give us that or to give them some help as well. There's 40 blokes turning up every week to work on, everyone's got their own sort of the niggle here or niggle there with physio or there's someone that wants to work on something else so they've got a sort of range of things they can work on as an individual.

Carl (38:57)
Yeah.

well.

Yeah.

Oz (39:24)
within their role so we feel like we are helping others. We're not just taking a lot, we're sort of giving back to the community and people that want to progress. So yeah, it's again, it goes back to good people in the right place and getting it done on little strategic improvements all the time.

Carl (39:34)
Yeah.

One thing I have got to ask though, who sorts the tours out? Because when Sheps said you were going to Swansea, I thought, hold on a minute, that must have been planned for you before you got promoted, because unless there's a sentimental value there, how did Swansea come about?

Will (40:00)
No idea, ask Harrison Young he was in charge along with Charlie and a couple of others can't say any more about the tour than that. You know what rugby tours are like it actually doesn't matter where you go it's about spending time. 42 people I think 42 blokes went down Swansea and had a great time so yeah really good.

Carl (40:12)
No, nobody knows about it at all. It's just where it was, that was about it. But, mm, yeah.

Yeah, I saw the photos in the car park before they left. I was, yeah, I think I've still probably got therapy after some of them to be honest, but. Did you guys go? Were you invited or were you, did ya?

Oz (40:33)
Hehehehe

Will (40:38)
Yeah, I went which is why my voice is still struggling a little bit but yeah, Oswald wasn't able to get there but usually would be. But yeah, no it's good and it's a good thing to do. It's been a long time since we went on tour together. So yeah, I think it's sort of six, eight years since the last one. So hopefully it won't be another six or eight years before the next one.

Carl (40:47)
Nuff.

really?

wow.

No, it's a whole different level as well, especially if you're trying to create that one club mentality and try and push forward for next season. Those, they're the bits when you, usually when you've got dirt on your mate and you're an oppo, you know when you're in this shit, they're gonna save you. So obviously, the lads that you've coached throughout, who's managed to go on and make it? Who's sort of gone on to the top echelons?

Oz (41:14)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Will (41:30)
It's interesting, you know there's not too many superstars. Johnny Wilkinson did alright didn't he? So you know he was one of them. Now I only coached him when he was playing for Hampshire under 18 so I can't really claim much and I wasn't even coaching the backs. But no I mean we've had a number of players that have gone on and played at the higher levels within the pyramid. You know you've had guys go away and play sort of Nat One

Carl (41:38)
Not too bad.

Yeah.

Will (41:56)
you know, championship rugby. And then, you know, as I said, I think the key thing for us is that they drift back down. They come back down to us. And, you know, certainly from my point of view as coach, having, you know, having all three of my lads come back to the club, which I never expected to happen, but all bringing a huge amount of experience, or Joel's always been there, but bringing a huge amount of experience back in, that's been great.

Carl (41:58)
Good level, really good level.

Will (42:25)
that your likes of the guys that have come over from Gosport, maybe not being higher up the pyramid, but come as the best players in their club and then come over and make a massive commitment to integrate and then be as central as they have been. People like Ross Parkins, who's a captain, captain combined services seams and being involved with the army.

You know, Pete Austin, who's, you know, he's the captain of the army at the moment and has, you know, hasn't been able to play for us for a year or so, but he's still one of our players. He's still signed for us and hopefully we can get him back in. So yeah, it's not a single sort of superstar. We've had a few, Jared Leigh went and played Nat one and then played a bit of England 20s and we've had a bit of representative rugby like that. But...

Carl (43:02)
Okay.

Will (43:17)
you know, he's back playing with us again now. So that's the kind of benefit we've had from always wanting to improve players, always saying to a player, if you feel you want to go and go play at a high level, then go and play at a high level. Nobody's going to have to criticize you. And then if you make, you know, I'm a firm believer, if you make their experience at the club one that they thoroughly enjoy, then eventually they will find their way back to you. And that's been the case.

Carl (43:46)
No, because I had Warren Abrahams on earlier, so he's on there. Interviewed him and I said, what was your greatest successes? And he said, a lot of people judge them on medals, stuff like that. And he said, mine was a few times that a few lads have come crossing the road saying, I remember you coaching me as a kid doing this, this and this. And there was one of them at Bristol University recently, apparently they wanted to start the Sevens team. And there's four lads that he coached at Quins Academy.

And they basically reached out to him and said, we've seen you in the area. Can you come and get us, sort us together? Cause everything you've done for us, the Academy goes, I just done it at my own time. He said that cause I absolutely love people reaching out and making that impact. And I think as coaches, you, that's you, that's the biggest, biggest bit. Like the trophies and stuff like that are brilliant, but it's actually making a difference on a person or a group of people. That's, that's, that's the bit you remember. Like the trophies was just a point of where you were at that time.

Will (44:46)
No, I'd agree with that. I mean, the development of individuals, you know, I say, I've said it often, you know, not only have we got some outstanding players at Havant Rugby Club, but we've got some outstanding people. And those guys, you know, some of the guys...

We say we've been doing it for 13 seasons. Some of these guys have been on that journey for 13 seasons and have been massively integral to the success that the club have had. And that's, some of them are outstanding players. I know he's my son, but Joel is probably the best player we've had and could have gone and played at a much higher level without a shadow of a doubt. He had offers to go and do that, but...

He stayed and sort of set a tone and then other people have come into that and we work in that way together. And like you're saying about Abrahams the guys that come back and talk to you about how much they've enjoyed the experience or the guys that are now still in it and enjoying that experience, that's as important as winning leagues and anything else that you do in rugby. Because after all, it's...

is how we talk about it and the memories we have that really are the sort of golden, you know, other things that we've cherished the most, I would say.

Carl (46:16)
How have you found the transition from player after probably retiring due to injuries as you said? Have you found it fairly seamless or did you have to sort of work a little bit harder to sort of go from teammate to sort of coach or have you literally taken to it like a duck to water and it just it's just come naturally?

Oz (46:25)
Hmm.

I don't know about that. Anyone that's had to stop rugby for not for their own sort of choices, that's quite a dark sort of place to be in many ways. But actually, the group around me at the time was brilliant and the coaches around me at the time were brilliant. And like I said, it was it was that opportunity and just ask the question. It was just sort of free and said, yeah, have a crack at it if you want to.

Carl (46:50)
Yeah.

Oz (47:09)
There was obviously encouragement about what I've done on the field before that. I've always enjoyed coaching, I'm a teacher, so I enjoyed that element of it. It does help when you're working with adults sometimes as well as kids. Some are, if you've met a couple. But no, it wasn't easy. I won't show you here, it wasn't easy as a...

Carl (47:21)
helps.

They're probably worse than the kids, aren't they?

Oz (47:37)
personally but actually over time it's got better and those Saturdays...

Carl (47:43)
What's the hardest bit you found, Oz? What was the bit that you really struggled with then?

Oz (47:50)
it's that it's that bit where you go I'm not going to walk out the tunnel and play that's the hardest bit. you're around

Carl (47:58)
Yeah, you're putting your boots on to point people in a direction rather than putting the boots on to be told where you're going. Yeah, yeah.

Oz (48:03)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, almost every other weekend you're walking out of that quite incredible atmosphere for a small club. It's quite a good place to be. If you've ever played there, you might know, but it's very rare that you get that environment. And so that for me was the hardest bit, having the boots on, walking behind and not finishing it off. That sounds a bit silly, but...

living vicariously through those guys out there for the first few seasons. Then it was easier over time, I guess, to sort of step away and understand my role a little bit better. And I enjoy the intricacies of it around that coaching side of it, so it's allowed me to sort of focus on that. And yeah, it's been amazing. So far it's been amazing. It's obviously tough bits, because you hate losing and you hate...

understanding why and not being able to put it right yourself. You have to go and communicate that in the right ways. And sometimes you get it right, sometimes you don't. And that's part coaching or teaching or whatever you want to look at it. And understanding the person, I think, is really important. There's a lot of different people out there, isn't there? So you can approach with a stick or a carrot and sometimes a cuddly toy for some of our players.

Carl (49:20)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are.

Oz (49:29)
There's definitely different ways and means of doing it, but I think that's been the toughest part is definitely that the transition phase that took longer than I would have liked, obviously. But I think I'm doing okay. I think I'm doing okay within coaching. I think I'm doing okay. I think we're getting good results and yes, results are important, but I think also the improvement of individuals that have maybe joined us from outside or.

Carl (49:40)
Yeah.

Oz (49:59)
Individual that come through the system within our academy and what have you. That sort of improvement and hopefully I've been a part of that or we've been a part of that. That's the sort of the good sides of it. So hopefully we're doing okay and yeah results help sort of gratify that I guess or sort of hang on something but yeah it's good. I think we're doing okay.

Carl (50:14)
Hmm.

So I had Russell Earnshaw on a few weeks ago as well. And he obviously goes in and does a bit of consultancy around coaches and stuff. And he said, and we were discussing coaches, some coaches are very stuck in their ways, obviously not willing to look at themselves, it's either the players, et cetera. Do you guys sort of take yourself away and actually assess how you guys have coached situations and then find ways to improve or is it a...

You're obviously clearly not because you guys have actually got a path and that no dickhead policy I'm sure cascades up through the chain as well. So do you guys sort of take yourself away and think actually I could have potentially done that better or you're all together and say actually lads we should have done this or that.

Will (51:09)
I think both. I think one of our sort of golden mantras in the coaching team has been if the performance is poor, the first thing we do is we say what should we have done differently and by that I mean what could or should the coaches have done differently. And if you know when we look at that sometimes we'll think you know do you know what we got that wrong?

Oz (51:27)
But no.

Will (51:35)
and we'll reflect on that and then talk about how we change it. I think we try to be as honest with the players as we can. You know, I was just talking about the things that are hard. I think the things that are hard, yeah, are that bit before you go out and play or they go out and play and you don't. I don't miss being battered anymore, but I do miss that sense of going into battle with your mates. But I think the other thing that's really hard is ringing players up and telling them that they're...

they're not selected this week. And you know, when they're as desperate to play as any rugby player is, that's always a tough conversation. You know, nobody wants to see Oz or Wills name come up on their phone on a sort of Wednesday afternoon before selection is announced because they kind of know what's coming. But you know, I think it's really important to be honest and to be upfront and to try and make sure that players...

Oz (52:22)
Yeah.

Will (52:29)
understand where we're coming from and where they sort of sit within the pecking order because otherwise it's difficult for them to sort of understand what they've got to do to improve. And that's something that we can always improve at as well. We can always get better at how we do that communication. So I think we are quite self -reflective. 100 % we don't get it right all the time, that's for sure. And you know, I think any coach that says that they do is probably conning themselves.

Carl (52:58)
Yeah. So obviously, as you said, when you have to make that call and the lads are obviously told they're not selected, do you sort of debrief them on why? Or is there a game plan behind it and you said, actually, we've had to select this player over this, I'll need you to go and work on this. Or is it, look, there's some coaches, it's just, sorry lads, you're not in. I'm sure there's probably a little bit more of a conversation with you guys, but do you sort of set...

a clear path or Oz, have you allocated the calls or will you make them all or just ditch them all on Oz's lap and say, Oz, give them a call.

Oz (53:29)
Yeah.

I'm sorry.

Will (53:35)
I tend to do the backs and then Oz looks after the forwards and then the guys, you know, if it's a second team player, you know, the guys who are looking after the twos will make those calls. So yeah, we divvy it up. But yeah, I mean, I think it's an element you got to like any difficult conversation, you judge that on the player. Sometimes a player is sort of happy to receive.

Carl (53:37)
okay.

Oz (53:37)
Yeah.

Will (54:03)
they'll receive the bad news and they'll probably want to come back and talk to you about it a bit later on. Sometimes they want to have a chat at the time or you know there will always be reasons why we've made decisions and we try to share those. Sometimes at the time I think that's very difficult for a player to actually hear because what they've been told is you're not playing this week and anything else you're saying in that conversation is kind of irrelevant. So always offering them the chance to come back and talk to us at training and have a more in -depth.

Carl (54:22)
Yeah, that's all they hear, yeah.

Will (54:32)
discussion and I think we have that relationship with most of the players that we can do that and certainly that's part of part of a You know building better players is is when when it's it's going well, what can you do better? When you're doing things really well, how can you make that even better? And then if there are things that we think you need to improve on then we need to share those Otherwise, you won't know what you need to improve on

Carl (54:56)
Yeah, because I was speaking to Joe Batley as well. He was on the pod a couple of weeks ago and he was still saying he's got things he needs to work on as a pro. So there's players all the way through. And do you think that your lads obviously have been given enough freedom to probably be more self -aware and stuff? Is there a lot of onerous on themselves to develop on the things that they know they're weak on? Do they come to you and say...

I need to really work on this, how should I do this? Or are some of them being told and nudged in the right direction still?

Oz (55:30)
There's opportunity for them for the first point. Obviously a lot of clubs, they film games. We make that quite available for the players and they're quite good at reflecting on that. When it comes to training, we're quite good as a squad. We're in the forwards of reflecting on the session, on the game, what was good, what missed opportunities there were. And then there's...

There's been opportunities to sit one to one with players and have that conversation about just specific moments of decision making, what might have been here and why, and what do we look for, and certain triggers and what have you. So there's been opportunities for that and guys are quite good at that. And I think that comes down to that element of honesty. Like Will said, if we're making those calls, they're almost expecting a call of some description.

on a Wednesday, if they feel they're in and around that area and if we don't make the call and they find out otherwise, then it's a little bit frustrating for those. So we're quite good at sort of being honest and being on that. So our responsibility to do that is important, but it's then down to those guys' responsibility to look at the video and be reflective and be quite critical in some ways about what they've done and what we've done as a squad. And then it's...

it's a team game as opposed to like them go away and find something to do about it. It's as a team, it's coaches, players finding the skills and finding the drills or those little nuances that you might do in a game, how to replicate that in our training and just get those opportunities to repeat it and make good decisions, I guess. And I think we're going back to that feedback about how we do as coaches. I think we are quite...

Carl (57:11)
Hmm.

Oz (57:26)
not critical, not aware, but we are very reflective, very honest with each other and let's find ways of dealing with it and going forward with it. But yeah, the players do have the opportunity to do it and a lot of them do it. And like Will said, some just go, no. Some can't get out of bed on the Sunday, so they don't really want to watch the reasons why. So it's...

Carl (57:34)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Will (57:53)
I think the other thing which is really developed over the last few years is the leadership within the player group and so much of our analysis, our reflection also comes from them. Players will be critical of themselves, of units within the team.

Oz (57:54)
It's what they need, isn't it?

Will (58:16)
and they'll look for ways to improve that and are constantly thinking about what can we do to improve. So there's much more of a, I would say a kind of collegiate way of developing our sort of style of play now than there perhaps was maybe five, six, seven years ago where, you know, I think we were very much dictating this is how we're going to play. We're more about creating a framework within which we can play and then adding, you know, adding the nuance through.

through the player squad as well as through the coaches. So we work on it together. And that's been really enjoyable. That's been a massively enjoyable part of the development of this particular group of group of players. They can work things out for themselves. And that you see that on the pitch a number of times this season where they've been right in the hole. And you think, Crikey, this is not going well.

they'll get themselves together under the post, they'll have a chat, they'll decide what they're going to do and then they go away and execute and that I think is a sign of a team with a bit of self -belief and a bit of self -confidence.

Carl (59:22)
Yeah, it's quality. So obviously...

With that unity as well, that's not just, you have got that whole one club ethos as well, haven't you? So your twos and your threes, because even your threes are playing at around sort of level seven, is that right?

Will (59:45)
No, threes are playing at level eight, I think, or nine. No, it's, you know, so they've just been promoted. The twos came third in the Hampshire Premier Division. You know, and actually the twos is a really interesting one because at the moment they can't get promoted because of the league rules, which may change in the future. But...

Carl (59:48)
level 8, so still not a terrible standard.

Will (1:00:10)
It gives us an opportunity all the time for, I mean of course they want to win the league, don't get me wrong, but that isn't our primary consideration with the twos. It's about giving the right players the opportunity to play at a competitive standard, to be able to develop themselves and then perhaps to be ready for opportunities to play for the first 15 squad and it's been proven every time we've pulled players up from the twos to the ones this year.

that they've been more ready than they've ever been. And I think that's down to the fact that they're playing a competitive standard rugby every week in that Hampshire Premier Division. So yeah, that's worked really well for us. And the club is very much a one club. You go in the bar at the end, you know, on a Saturday night and it's first, second, third, all, you'd be struggling to know which one's playing for which team. It sort of doesn't feel like there's any kind of divide in there.

Carl (1:00:38)
Yeah.

Will (1:01:03)
I think that's a really important part of having rugby club and the way we are.

Carl (1:01:08)
I think as Sean said as well, the pitch being available to play like a Friday night game as well, that freeze up, the lads come and watch that and then be able to go and sort of support the other teams on the other games. Do you think that's really sort of helped push that one club mentality as well that you can put a game on a Friday night and then still be able to, everyone go and see the ones or the threes or however it sets up or be able to play the game beforehand and then you've just got like a double header?

Will (1:01:35)
think it's I thought it can't I think it helps massively I think it's just a real appetite for watching rugby at Havant and you know we've had a couple of games on there on a Friday night and six seven hundred people have turned up to watch a second team game you know well they're never gonna get that experience

Carl (1:01:39)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Will (1:01:58)
playing at any of the clubs around the county, you know, they're just not going to get that. But if they come and do that Friday night on Havant, then that sort of is what they can get. I think the varsity match for the university was played there a couple of weeks, you know, a few weeks ago, and there's a well over a thousand people have turned up to watch, you know, and there's also not many clubs that can host that many people. So it is a venue that lends itself to, you know, the usage that it's getting, but it's also...

Carl (1:02:11)
Yeah, I see that, yeah.

Will (1:02:27)
as you say has contributed to this culture within the club where you know I know that if the if the thirds are playing before a first team game at 12 o 'clock 90 % of the first team squad will be there watching them and you know if the seconds are playing on a Friday night or the thirds are playing on a Friday night or the vets are playing against the Navy on a Wednesday

most of the squads will be down watching them and that's yeah that does build a real strong ethos within the club I believe.

Carl (1:02:57)
Yeah, so obviously as you tapped on there, other clubs are able to sort of use your pitch. Is that just accessible? Is there a fee or is it a case of you just take the revenue through the bar? Or is it just made accessible for the right links and the right connections? Especially with the university if you want any of their players.

Will (1:03:18)
The pitch is actually owned and operated by the RFU so it's a rugby 365 pitch. Part of the agreement when you get a pitch like that is that you have a local rugby partnership so there are a set number of hours which the club get as the host club. If we want additional hours we have to pay for those hours through the 365.

Carl (1:03:23)
okay.

Okay.

Will (1:03:43)
booking process and obviously at the weekends for the minis and juniors they will book you know block book some time but yeah any any of the local clubs can book the pitch to come in and play games the idea is is that you know if say Gosports pitches are are unplayable and they don't want to cancel the league game then they can look at the weekend they can book a pitch at Havant and come down and play that game I mean to be honest that

the time we've had it it hasn't happened that often has happened a bit but not that often and I think that's tied into clubs not wanting to lose the revenue from their own club and it is that it is difficult but but know that there's a fantastic facility they're available for the area

pretty extensively now as their probably their main venue along with just a couple of other grounds because of the you know the quality of the pitch and then the quality of the off -field facilities as well.

Carl (1:04:45)
So you guys are obviously just on the beck and call, the pitch has been booked, we've got to open the bar, or is it a case of could somebody turn up with a little teepee and some cans and sell it on the side, or is it you've got full exclusive rights to open the bar, or? Yeah, just a cooler of beer just in the corner.

Oz (1:04:57)
I'm sorry.

Will (1:04:59)
 think so the club and the bar and everything else is Havant rugby club that's separate so if a club you know if somebody wants to just come and play a game of rugby on the pitch and then disappear they can do that that's that's not an issue but obviously if they want to then use the facilities at the club

bar can be used but then obviously the if they want food and things like that then obviously the club would charge them for food but generally it's it operates like any other rugby club in that sense.

Carl (1:05:37)
No, that's fair play. Gents, it's been an absolute pleasure to try and get under the bonnet of where the resurgence has been. And as you said, it seems to have gone back a bit further than what the outside can see in, Will. Oz, obviously great to see you've been part of the club and then moved into the coaching rather than, as you said, getting lost in that wilderness of...

Oz (1:06:02)
Yeah.

Carl (1:06:05)
wanting to play but can't physically get over the line. So it seems like what you guys are doing is brilliant and being a Gosport boy, I fucking hate it, but it's credit where credit's due, gents. You've, yeah, you seem to have got something right and it's good to shine a light on Hampshire rugby. Just shame it's the wrong part of the hill.

Oz (1:06:16)
Hahaha!

You're more than welcome to come down whenever mate and see the light.

Carl (1:06:32)
Well, it's been a bit of of travel from Spain, but when I'm back I'm sure I can pop over and meet up with her you a  and that and...

Will (1:06:32)
This is it.

I'm still shocked that somebody from Gosport criticised our old first team pitch.

Carl (1:06:43)
Yeah, yeah, there's nothing wrong with a Dell, mate. There's nothing wrong with that. Side would rain. There's a whole different weather climate in Gosport. That's it. It's probably what helped us win so many games at one point was the weather conditions. Lads, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and hopefully when we can touch base towards the end of the season when we start.

Oz (1:06:44)
You

Will (1:06:52)
Yeah, freezing cold wind in the middle of July. Yeah.

Oz (1:06:52)
there's, definitely.

Carl (1:07:11)
when you see you sort of consolidate and see what the plan is for the seasons after.

Will (1:07:16)
Yeah, lovely. Good to talk.

Oz (1:07:16)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Carl (1:07:19)
Kushti. Cheers, cheers gents, really appreciate it.

Oz (1:07:22)
Cheers guys, cheers mate, good luck with this.

Will (1:07:23)
Cheers.

Carl (1:07:24)
Well, that brings this pod to an end. If you made it this far, I just wanna take a moment to thank you for listening right through and express my gratitude for following yet another episode of Rugby Through the Leeds podcast. In today's episode, we finally got that door open and Havant understood the no dickheads policy, where they plan on going. They 100 % believe that it's not over yet with what they've got available. Recently been seeing their, obviously their recruitment.

So it looks really good down there for another decent season that Havant So it'd be great to see how they get on in Nat 2 Next week, we've got the legend that is Warren Abrahams. So Warren Abrahams has managed to link through Russell, Earnshaw Rusty that we had on the other weeks. Warren Abrahams has got a wealth of experience currently working with Brazil sevens and just done loads and loads and loads within the game.

We actually had to cut his interview short because he had to run off to go train with Kyle Sinckler So obviously Sinks, if you want to return the favour by jumping on to fill the gap for Warren, that'd be welcome any time. But once again, I just want to say a huge thank you to you all. Thank you and goodbye.