Welcome to Rugby TTL: Shining a Light on Rugby Beyond Tier 1 | Rugby Podcast

The very first Rugby Through The Leagues episode — grassroots and rugby below tier one, and the stories the mainstream ignores.

In this episode: why this podcast exists; the tier 2/3 mission; what's coming.

Subscribe on YouTube (youtube.com/@RugbyTTL) · Spotify · Apple Podcasts · rugbyttl.com. ⏱ Add chapters from 00:00.

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Carl (00:14)
Hello and welcome to Rugby Through the Leagues podcast. This podcast wants to shine a light on rugby that is not shown in the mainstream media. I'm Carl, an avid rugby fan and regularly injured player. Today's episode will be an introduction on why and how this podcast has come about

and how we plan on spreading the rugby gospel. Thank you for joining. Obviously this is the introduction episode. Today we want to go through why this rugby podcast has been started. How we personally feel that there is not enough light being shown on grassroots rugby and even rugby below tier one.

So if you're not one of those tier one countries, it's quite evident on the internet that this is not available to the masses. We've got a big following of rugby fans, rugby players, kids coming up. There's a big development piece available and a big, big community that as rugby fans and as rugby players, we do not make use of enough.

I've recently moved to Spain from England and over here there is a massive, massive following within rugby in Spain. However, because it's not football and because it's not a mainstream sport a lot of people that are fans of rugby and players and have grown up within their family. So within that,

You believe it's a massive sport, but unfortunately it's not. And that's quite apparent when you try to get support from the councils, from other pieces within the media to try and push it to where it is. We are a very closed community to an extent because we think we are a lot bigger than we are to the rest of the world. However, a lot of people, if you try and speak to them about rugby, they don't.

fully understand they hear that oh you've got the Six Nations, you've got the World Cup, that is as far as it probably gets. They don't understand that in France you've got four or five tiers of pro rugby, you've got teams playing in Spain in the division de honor and...

Black Lions playing in Georgia who have got some exceptional players and underpin that whole national pride and that international step from Georgia up into the so -called Top tiers has always been sort of crushed and pushed back down. However, they've shone the light. They've won the last seven years. They've won the rugby championships. There's a clear gap.

in certain parts within it, watching most of the games and seeing the players that are involved. However, that gap has got to be closed for us to be able to push it. I know there's plans to increase the Rugby World Cup which means within that there's going to be some tier...

two rugby that's going to be on show. And as you can see from the most recent World Cup, Romania obviously had games against the likes of Ireland But Portugal are obviously a big standout within that rugby World Cup. And that is now quite apparent. Obviously they managed to, they were runners up to Georgia in the most recent Rugby Europe Championships.

But where's that next step? Or are we going to allow teams like Georgia and Spain and Portugal?

in no uncertain term, rot away within the Rugby Europe Championships. There's a clear path for progression within rugby outside of the tier one nations. And that's quite apparent with rugby Europe showing they've got a conference, they've got the rugby trophy, they've got a development teams all set up and ready to play and try to make as many games as possible.

on an international stage. But who's to say why can't Spain go and play England at Twickenham? Why can't England come over to Spain and play in Madrid? Why can't England go and play in Georgia? Wales have opened the door. They've realised that the gap is closing to themselves a little bit after their recent performances. I'm a regular visitor to Italy for the Six Nations to watch England and just...

the passion and even the value is massively apparent. To go watch England at Twickenham and you have to go and sit with a lot of Hooray Henrys that are going there because their mates got a ticket, rather than just going for the love of the game, a lot of them have turned it into a status symbol. Oh, I'm going to Twickenham this weekend, rah rah rah.

This is a sport that everyone loves within our community. And if we can push that out to the wider community and kids and families embrace it more. Me personally, I know that this sport has no ends. This could be massive. It could be hell of a lot bigger than what it is now. I've recently become president of...

Xabía Rugby Club down in southern Spain. So I've been coaching under 6s under 8s I've now just sort of embarked upon helping coach the under -14s and the under -16s. And there's some great talent. And there's some great talent all the way through. We regularly have games against teams from Valencia in the Alicante League, et cetera. And they come down in big.

big numbers, they've got big, big groups, big development. Some of the teams in Valencia have got four or five decent teams, even at the under six, under eight age groups. So there is no end to where this beautiful game could end and where it can go and the amount of people it can touch within the community and...

the support of being a rugby fan and a rugby player. Everyone knows once you're part of it, it becomes a family. If you bump into somebody that's played rugby, knows rugby, wants to know rugby, it's an instant conversation starter. There's not enough coverage in my opinion and hopefully.

we can shine that light on it and if we can get around Europe and visit some of the games and visit some of the leagues and show everyone what's available out there. We're actively going to try and make this under the wonderful world of AI, try and translate this to as many languages within the rugby community as possible. We're going to try and put the transcripts up and just try to help and support and shine that light on other leagues as well.

So there will be a lot of ramblings from me. I'm very good at rambling. I will be trying to bring as many guests in to limit the amount of rambling as possible. However, today I wanted to go through the Rugby Europe Championship that was recently just finished. They released their team of the championship.

And when you look at the names on the list and where they've come from and where they play now, it's quite apparent that there's still a limitation to where their development can be and how that development within the tier two nations is being limited and suppressed slightly. Rugby Europe, team of the championship. So...

Georgia, obviously quite apparent throughout Portugal have got a very good group within that as well. So the sub list is never -ending. I do apologize in advance for any poor pronunciation.

or any very poor attempt at saying anything in this way. Iulian Hartig from Romania, he's 26 and he's currently plowing his trade in the fourth tier of French rugby. He's on a team of the championship from what I saw from these games and the reports, exceptional loose head prop. As we all know,

It's a dark art upfront. And if anyone can master that and put yourself on a team sheet in that world, then fair play to start with and to get team of the championship while you still plow and you trade in the fourth tier of French rugby. Shows that there's a lot of depth out there and a lot of ability within the lower leagues of rugby. But as you'll probably see throughout this team of the championship, France.

seems to be the go -to place for players to get regular development of a decent standard of rugby. In at number two, we've got Karkadze from Georgia, who's a young hooker at 23, plowing his trade in the Top 14 for Montpellier. Obviously, very good standard of rugby, very big boy, very good at what he does, and Georgia are now...

obviously reaping the benefits of a lot of their players bumping across into the French leagues

So back to the team sheet. We've got APTSIAURI, another 21 year old tight head prop for Georgia. Currently playing his trade for Grenoble in Pro D2 in France. However, it looks like he's signed for Lorion for next season in the Top 14, which is brilliant for.

for his progression at 21 to for next season to be sort of putting your mark in the Top 14 only speaks volumes for what he's done so far and what Georgia can hopefully progress into as well. In the lock position, we've got Cohen Blomann from the Netherlands, 25 year old currently plowing his tray in the third tier of French rugby. Another.

Another player that's found their home over there by the looks of it. Exceptional in the line -out throughout the Rugby Europe Championships. There was a lot of players that could have got into that lock position however exceptional throughout the tournament these sort of players will be able to have a go on a grander stage.

some of these players that can go and probably plough their trade a bit further up the leagues and in turn helps develop their teammates as well, as we know. If you play with a good group of players that have got different skill sets, you also up your levels as well.

So hopefully that will, these sort of team of championships will get the scalps out and get some other players signed up to bigger clubs and push their teammates along as well. So in at number five, we've got Mario Pichardie It looks like he used to play for Wasps before, obviously Wasps become no more.

Now a Spanish international, young 23 year old, plays for Castilla However, another one, not enough available online to understand what he's done, where he is playing, where he's ploughing his trade, whether he's playing in between. Obviously Castilla and Leon playing the Europe Super Cup as well, similar as the Black Lions, but there's not.

many games available within that. So he must be ploughing his trade somewhere else. So Mario, more than happy to have you on Mario and obviously it'd be lovely to sit down and have a chat and see what you've done, what your feelings is on rugby outside of England and over in Spain.

where that opportunity come for you to play for Spain. So obviously I'll put a little tag on when this podcast goes out. So Mario, if you've ever got 10, 15 minutes spare and you feel a bit bored and chatting to some hairy bloke, then give us a shout. Next in at number six, we've got Spanderashvili from Georgia,

The 27 -year -old plays for the Black Lions as well. So obviously the Georgian team have got a very big strength within their culture at the minute of their very good players are able to play together on a decent stage with the Black Lions now playing in that.

playing in the European Super Cup and also now embarking upon the Challenge Cup as well, which is brilliant. So they get to play some very big teams and that is only a bigger progression path for the Black Lions and Georgia great to see. In at number seven, we've got Wolf van Dijk from the Netherlands, another player.

that doesn't have enough light shining on him on the internet. Sadly, I've seen you play within the Rugby Europe Championship. Exceptional, exceptional flanker. However, unknown where he's playing at the minute, so another one, Wolf, if you're understanding or you're listening, reach out, love to have you on, understand what your path is within rugby, where you go and what you're doing, where you want to go.

where you currently play in your trade as well because after an exceptional tournament like that from where you played and how you got yourself on that team with the champion sheet, then we want to know more. We want to shine these little wins on the rugby world and if that can help push you and your teammates around from wherever you're playing at the minute, then let's get it done.

In at number eight, Nicolas Martins from Portugal. As everyone probably remembers from the Rugby World Cup, what an exceptional tournament he had there. Again, cemented his place again within the team of the championship from Portugal. Great player, Play on his trade in Pro D2 in France. Another cohort from France by the looks of it. There seems to be a big, big...

development piece in France for the tier two nations, which is great to see, but also it's a shame to see that players aren't getting over into the likes of the championship in England. And shining that light within the English game, because the English game, as we know, is a big struggle with the financial situation there's a lot of championship teams that could probably...

get some of these players across hopefully and help their development as well because we keep banging on that we're the biggest country for rugby and our development is exceptional and we've got this big pot of players to play with but at the minute on a club level we're not there, we're not getting there. We've got the Top echelons in the Premiership, brilliant, but as we can see the French teams are pushing through.

pretty quickly within Europe and is this development piece of tier two nations pushing the better players through? Who knows? It's something that we can slowly digest throughout this podcast as we go along. Now we make it into the backs. A lot of the photos and a lot of the games throughout, as you can see, they always have very clean kits.

throughout the game, whether that's because they're playing in a slightly hotter nation or whether they don't do as hard work as the us forwards, it's a different conversation to have.

Portugal cemented the nine and 10 position. That axis was tied up pretty quickly. Hugo Camacho come through, he's playing his trade for Bayonne. 19 year old, literally just unreal, different class. And the axis was along playing alongside Hugo Aubry, who's playing his trade for Rouen in Pro D2 in France, 21 year old.

They run the games, they dominated throughout the tournament, apart from the final against Georgia. Georgia obviously went through the gears. However, throughout the tournament, that nine and 10 axis was just exceptional and so exciting to watch. You could see that with the point difference that ended the tournament on. It's an exciting partnership potentially there for Portugal.

If they can build that team around that and they stay fit and they're counting you playing exceptional rugby Where could it go? Could Georgia have an upset a little challenge next year? Let's let's hope that it is competitive again next year as well and it'd be good to see because seven seven years on the bounce Somebody's got a start trying to close that gap and I think Portugal currently have big big ambitions. So

It's great to see. Whereas Portugal tied up the nine and 10 position, nobody could look past Georgias 12 and 13. Mareb, Cherokadze and Giorgi Kivisladze, both playing for the Black Lions. Clearly have a great partnership together at a club like rugby and that's obviously been able to.

transfer onto the international stage forums. So it's exceptional to see that the development for a lot of these clubs has also supported their international ambitions and Georgia are reaping the rewards at the minute with great partnerships in critical positions. So great to see that the Black Lions are going to hopefully push some big teams.

throughout the Challenge Cup and obviously the Europe Super Cup as well. It was great to see their involvement there as well. We're now making it onto the back three. We've got Martiniano Cian 22 year old, playing in Spain, originally from Argentina. Plays for Valladolid

in Division De Honor, which is the Top league in Spain.

I believe he's also got into the Castilla y Leon team for the Super Cup, which is great to see that Black Lions and Castilla and Leon get to play in their own Super Cup level as well because that's another thing from my opinion is Club Rugby doesn't have enough.

exposure on like a world stage. We don't have like in football you've got a club, club world cup. So it'd be nice to see if that's something that we can develop and push for within the wider community and trying to bring the international community together and see if we can create a club world cup and pick somewhere sunny or rainy depending on your preference on where we want to play each year and

If that's something that this podcast can push towards, then happy days. It would be great to see the rugby family come together across the world and then get to watch some great rugby and I'm sure get to drink some exceptional beverages as a group as well. On the other wing, we've got Akaki Tabutsadze another Georgian playing for Black Lions, young 22 year olds.

exceptional winger. Plenty of ability and pace. Pulled teams apart when he could and it's great to see that the Black Lions, again, I know I keep saying it, but they're creating great partnerships and a great togetherness within the Georgian national team. They play together week in, week out. International just seems to become second nature to them as well. So that could be

That can only be a positive. In at 15, we've got Manuel Cardoso Pinto from Portugal, 26 year old, plays for Lusitanos, which is the Portuguese representatives within the European Super Cup. Sadly, another one that doesn't have enough information online to figure out where he's currently plowing his trade on Club Rugby.

So Manuel, if you understand any of this, it'd be lovely for you to reach out and come on and discuss rugby within Portugal and what you can see if there's a clear development path and if the Lusitanos are going to be a clear competitor for the Black Lions or is there a further progression path that you're aware of within that, it'd be great to have you on. There's going to be a lot of tags at the bottom of this podcast by the looks of it. So.

apologies for the list, but anyone that wants to reach out as well. Probably best if Richard Cockerill, it would be lovely to speak to yourself on what you've done with Georgia and where you expect them to be. And I saw your interview about closing the gap for the Six Nations. They've got...

and them hopefully opening the door to Georgia. It'd be great to speak to yourself and if there's actually gonna happen or if there's a lot more politics underneath that you're probably not allowed to discuss, I understand. However, what job you've done so far and you must see what I've just highlighted as well with the Black Lions and how that's hopefully changed and helped develop your international ambitions

So today's a lot of rambling, a lot of podcasts lined up for what we plan on doing. We have big ambitions to try and get around as many games within the Europe trophy. You've got the Europe trophy, Europe championships, we've got...

the Europe conference

So in the rugby development, we've got Montenegro play Kosovo. So they've recently played literally yesterday, which was the 14th of April, Montenegro won 35 -12 against Kosovo. So there's a tiered system within the Rugby Europe Championship model, which is in two year cycles. So there'll be teams that...

dropped down where they haven't performed in the category that they're in, which then allows other teams to get that exposure, whereas at the minute, on the Top tier of rugby, that's not being shared with other clubs. I know a lot of people banged on about Italy not being up to the races for so long within the Six Nations. However, that progression might have taken a bit longer than a lot of people hoped.

and focused on. However, that's now paying dividends. There's bigger questions within the six nations and does it become the seven nations or does it have a promotion and relegation model?

it'd be exciting to go to. Imagine that, England having to pop to Georgia for an away day in Tbilisi. I'd be there, I've done England away and Italy's by far my favorite place to have visited for that. I was able to be exposed to international rugby in Spain as well, so recently I lived down near the Alicante region.

and they had a rugby tournament for Brazil, Canada, Spain and the USA. So they, everyone, they come over, had a tournament. So it was spread over two weekends. The first weekend they had a playoff between the four teams. The week after they played the second and play, the third and fourth playoff final, and then obviously the final. So Spain ended up losing to...

USA in the final however for the

The availability for fans to reach out and just go and see the games was phenomenal. I believe it was, I think it worked out as 20 euros each for two games for one day. So I took my two boys, I took the missus along as well, and we went and watched two international games. I think it worked out less than 60 euros with the kids' tickets.

And after the Brazil -Canada game, we were able to go on the pitch, chat with the players. My little boys absolutely loved it, fell in love. They were able to go and kick a rugby ball around on a pitch with professional players still around. And there's people go and get autographs and shirts. It was great to see. And as a...

just said earlier, I've become the president of Xabía Rugby. And there's lads that are still running around international players' signatures on their training tops. And they still talk about the accessibility of rugby. And their ambition only grew more because they were able to get that close to...

to the pros in their eyesight and the international standard of rugby was brilliant to see. Brazil put an absolute shift in against Canada as well and the game was end to end. But as always, fitness normally pays off and it was great to see. But the accessibility of international rugby over here is so much more available to the masses.

but it's just not utilized enough, which is a real shame. So it'd be great to try and shine a light on games coming up. I know there's other games coming up in the near future.

So in the conference this weekend, we got Latvia playing Denmark. This is on the 20th of April. We got Bosnia playing Hungary. We got Bulgaria playing Serbia.

We've got Luxembourg against Slovenia. So four games of international rugby. If you're there, if you're available, get yourself down. Obviously, we'll be looking at getting around to a few of these grounds on the next time round. Unfortunately, we won't be going there this weekend because I've got to go watch the Mighty Aguiles

We definitely have a plan and a tour around Europe and doing some interviews with people and coaches throughout these leagues. So next year is a big plan for us to get around and hopefully get invited to some of these games and try and shine a light on not just on the international standard, but also the club rugby leagues within these.

countries of rugby and the tier two standard where we really want to push it forward. So on that note, I'm going to stop the ramblings. We've got a great guest next week. He's become the coach of my local team back in England just before the pandemic. So I want to discuss with him.

the local rugby scene, where he's been, what he's done, where he's also found the challenges of trying to get people back into rugby after the pandemic and get his opinion of rugby outside of the mainstream and where we can really push that forward. So thank you very much for joining. We will be adding ourself onto YouTube, Facebook.

the usual social media channels. thank you very much for joining. Hopefully you'll stick around, subscribe, and you haven't already lost your, because of my ramblings.